this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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i hate musk, but i am not wild about our dependence on china either, so i am not really sure who to root for in this fight...
I would say go with whatever company that doesn't have a CEO throwing Nazi salutes.
Yeah, the Chinese manufacturers are out to make money, and at least we know what to expect from them.
Besides, being profitable usually means making a better product than your competitors.
GASP!
You mean... Proper capitalism!?
Okay there's a ton of spyware in the car, but - just . . don't . . . connect it. Or whatever.
So support the country committing a genocide against the uyghurs? Because you think a salute is worse than a Holocaust, got it.
If you don't see musk as one of the singular greatest threats to this planet, I dunno what to tell you. It is certainly not just the salute, that was just the most public he's been about his true self. If I recall those Nazis had some thoughts on the Holocaust as well.
I really don't. Putin, Kim Jong Un, Xi Jinping, all are actual threats. Musk doesn't even register.
How many of those got up on stage with the seal of the president of the United States and did one of the most identifiable actions of the last true fascist regime? musk was able to spend $250 million to pretend to be president for a few months to kneecap the US government and kill all the investigations into his illegal dealings as well as reward his companies with lucrative government contracts. I'd love to see any of those tinpot dictators and "communist" leaders do that.
Putin is the head of the paper tiger Russia. If they didn't have nukes the US probably would have steam rolled them back in 2014 when they took Crimea. If the world actually gave Ukraine the weapons and resources to do it, I have no doubt they could be at Moscow's door in a couple months.
Kim Jung Un is the head of a pariah state who relies on worldwide aide so that his people don't starve more than they already are starving.
Sure Xi is the head of the state in which there is obviously genocide happening, but he's not running a car company, which is what this whole article is about.
Riiight. Listen, this isn't going anywhere. You think a salute is worse than a genocide, musk is a greater threat than dictators with nukes, and there's no way I'm going to change your mind. I'm going to peace out
In a couple months a drug fueled musk did to the US what Xi and Putin have been trying to do for decades. It most certainly wasn't just his salute that made me think that.
You could change my mind if you brought any information to the table that shows how those two are worse than musk.
Enjoy your day.
Hahaha.
As opposed to supporting a country that... (fill in the blanks, there is an infinite supply)
With that level of indirection gymnastics, you can accuse anyone of anything.
(This comment written in the language of a brutally colonizing and genocidal empire.)
Since you proudly champion the rights of Uyghur people, you are aware that the reeducation camps are closed since about 2022, right?
i am afraid it is just that most CEOs are sane enough to keep their embarrassing moments for their private life. do you think musk is the only narcissistic psychopath on drugs in the business world?
this is not advocating for musk, but it is important to be grounded in reality ;)
I have no doubt most CEOs are psychopaths, but they also don't own a global Nazi mouthpiece like twitter, or have more money and resources than several small nations.
Feet firmly planted in reality, thanks. You definitely sound like your advocating for musk.
So did you mean "CEOs not throwing a Nazi salute" or "CEOs whose Nazi salutes don't show up on your twitter feed"?
It seems you forgot what your argument is in a span of two rebuttals
You should work on your reading comprehension then
Root for better public transport and active cities instead of car dependency :)
The public transport bus I take to and from work is a Chinese made electric. It's a Yutong E15.
I remember that one getting tested in my hometown.
Living in the boonies, I'm never going to get a bus going by every ten minutes so a solid market for good EVs is still what I root for.
Of course, public transport has a limit and we can root for both as well, including protected bike lanes even in the boonies like we successfully see in the Netherlands
i am lucky, my city has excellent public transport, that doesn't stop people from using cars though. be it because of pure habit, or because public transport is not solution for everything.
so i'd rather if our european car industry wasn't decimated by the chinese one.
Competition is good for the consumer. More options from more players will encourage more charging infrastructure and (ostensibly) more innovation. It's not just Elon Musk vs China. Every automaker that wants to sell cars in the USA is on notice. If they want to compete in the EV subcategory, they need to focus on price and performance. People want budget-conscious EVs.
Not super into cars but is there even any reason other than environmental friendliness to get an EV? Where I'm from, EVs are all wildly expensive compared to their combustion peers and they all frankly look really ugly to me. The coil whine of the EVs also drive me crazy.
Even the cheap ones accelerate faster, ride smoother, and are quieter. You don’t have to get oil changes, and the brakes don’t wear down as fast. Plus I can recharge at home, which is loads cheaper than buying gasoline.
And this is all with a relatively ancient Nissan Leaf, the new vehicles are all far better.
Oh, and let’s not forget that even very small air quality improvements have noticeable improvements in lung health! Humans were not meant to be breathing gasoline fumes or combustion exhaust.
Others have addressed your other questions, but I want to add that the "coil whine" that irritates you is probably the car's slow-moving warning system. EVs are effectively silent at slow speeds because there is no engine noise or road noise, so they are required to make an annoying sound when maneuvering to get your attention. While it is an important safety feature, I agree some are very obnoxious.
We are in the middle of a crisis. You don't need an other reason.
You can either look ugly in an EV or drive straight towards dystopia in a cool looking ICE vehicle.
With my cheap over night tarrif (UK) I pay approximately 2p a mile, I'm planning a road trip to Europe soon and have calculated with a pay for discount EV charge card, I'll average about 14p/mile. I'm saving between £60-£80 a month compared to my old diesel car, which pays off the charger install ~£900 in a year. Diesel price have dropped in the UK since I got mine.
For servicing it's coolant every 3 years or so, and that pretty much it. We have a MOT in the UK, for every vehicle over 3 years old, then yearly, that covers more than what is needed on the yearly services for my car. Only thing it doesn't cover is lubricate the charge port, but I think I'm ok with that
Also the cabin noise is almost silent, no gears, constant predictable acceleration, and I can plug anything I want in to the 240v outlet in the back seat
Everywhere is depndent on China, buy the car that isnt overtly a fascist car. They also suck.
that isn't really an argument in favor of china 😂
China famously doesn't have a far-right problem, unlike the EU or the USA, what are you talking about?
The article title is a bit sensational. The share of the market for all Chinese EV is 5,6%. It’s not ( yet ? ) a tsunami.
Telsas total european market share this month is 1.2%, down from 1.8% last may. The chinese market share is 5.9%, not 5.6%.
5.9% vs 1.2% is a 5x sales rate for chinese cars versus Teslas. According to the article, china doubled its EU market share in the last year, while Tesla lost 30% of its market share in the same time period.
The title is not sensational. If anything, your comment is a bit misleading by not listing the tesla EU market share.
It would be nice if there was a way to rip out any questionable software/electric components from modern cars and replace it with something open source.