this post was submitted on 16 May 2024
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Lefty Memes

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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

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If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.

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That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)


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We require alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
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That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).


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Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.



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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)

So the woman in our scenario should decide to choose the "Nice Guy" tactically?

[–] [email protected] 33 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, I’m saying that your analogy breaks down.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (13 children)

I don't think it does. A choice fostered upon me at the threat of violence is not a choice at all. I refuse to participate and therefore legitimize such a farce.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You’re free to do nothing, but smart people choose to minimize harm when there are only bad choices in front of them.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Who said I'm "doing nothing"? Voting isn't doing anything. Only actions outside the ballot matter.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Voting isn’t doing anything? Did you not see what happened when Trump got to pick three Supreme Court justices? Roe is gone dude. This stuff matters.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It really doesn't. This is the momentum of your country either way. Or did you forget that your democrats had chances to put Supreme Court justices and they just...didn't?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

What are you talking about? The senate has to approve them. The GOP controlled the senate. I get you don’t understand our system but before acting so smug I’d make sure I understand what happened.

Also they’re not “my” democrats.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Hrc won the popular vote. How did voting harm reduction then do anyone any good?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Folks that stayed home to prove a point made sure the SC would get the three. Failure to Vote resulted in the harm. Had those folks Voted, harm would have been reduced. You the failure of your own position.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Right, because the dnc totally didn't ignore Bernie Sanders, or Dennis Kucinich. Again, please.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don’t understand the question. We don’t elect based on popular vote.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I'm saying hrc votes were worthless; throw away votes. Hence a non vote was the same, and a third party vote was at least as valuable, and when enough people support a third party candidate, it will be worth more, because it shows the two major parties they have something to worry about.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is also a good point. I think we'd have a better shot at electing a third-party candidate than we would of pushing an establishment democrat left.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Dems have made it abundantly clear they are willing to move further right than a centimeter to the left. Also my American compatriots see socially left and assume economically left when that's just not the case. Socially left is great, until everyone is homeless, hungry and sick, equally.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Not to mention that even the "socially left" is highly questionable. When I see a leader who's willing to throw other marginalized groups such as Palestinians, refugees, and BIPOC under the bus, I have no doubt he'd have us LGBTQIA+ people lined up and executed if he thought it would help him win elections. Establishment Democrats are not allies, no matter how many rainbows they project on the White House.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

This is a great point. I've said you're either human rights or rights for me and mine, not thee and thine." If you're pro black but not pro women, pro women but not pro lgbtqia, etc.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Non-participation is not the same as doing nothing. If she chooses to date neither, neither is in her life. If you do nothing, you still get trump or Biden. The analogy doesn’t hold.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And so I refer you back to my first comment in this thread

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I have read it don’t be an ass. Make a point or don’t.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

My point to this kind of comment is made in that post. We're just looping at this point.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

If the comment was sufficient we wouldn’t be here. It’s a bad analogy. Accept that it has flaws or make your case. Don’t keep pointing to the same insufficient comments as if the only answer is our lack of comprehension. Several people clearly disagree with it on the same grounds so maybe consider you’re wrong.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Non-participation is not the same as doing nothing. If she chooses to date neither, neither is in her life. If you do nothing, you still get trump or Biden. The analogy doesn’t hold.

Continue with that analogy. What would happen if that woman had no other option. Should she choose the nice guy, the chad or object to the choice being fostered upon her and choose nobody? And if she’s paired anyway with that person, should she then act as if it was her choice, or take actions to disengage from that person and destroy the system that caused these turn of events?

It fits. You say the analogy doesn't fit because "we don't have a choice". I tell you to adjust the analogy so that the woman doesn't have a choice either.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's a good point actually. Arranged marriages existed for thousands of years. Women and girls were usually not given a choice, but even if when they were and chose the "lesser evil" it did nothing to end the tradition and evils of arranged marriage.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

If you and I choose not to vote for Trump or Biden, who do we wind up with?

If she says no to both guys, who does she wind up with?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

If the woman doesn't choose any, who does she end up with? What should she do about it? You clearly see the absurdity when presented as an analogy, but you cannot see the similarity because the violence of the politicians is many levels removed from you.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

And the point is she doesn’t have to have anybody. We do. We have 2 people and 1 of them will be here whether we like it or not. We can’t opt out.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Again, assume she has the same lack of choice. What should she do? Why does that differ from what we should do?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I live in the gulf coast. The violence is not removed from me. It’s arguably worse here than anywhere else in the US, they test those insane policies here. You know nothing about me or my family.

Interesting you dropped off that SCOTUS discussion. You seemed pretty smug and sure there too.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The fact that you're continuously dodging the questions is not lost on me

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I didn’t dodge questions. Some of us critiqued your shit analogy and you got butthurt. That’s what happened here.

Have a good one mate. Last word is all yours - I’m sure it’s very important to you.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah nah mate. You have the right to not vote. But if you choose to exercise this right you don't get to whinge about the person elected by those who did vote.

Society is not composed of you and you alone. It is composed of many. You took yourself outta this decision but it's still being made freely by everyone else and no, it doesn't impinge on you to accept the democratic consensus of the many

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I understand that I'm living in an oppressive system enforced by violence and that my life is shaped at the threat of state violence. you don't need to reiterate that to me. It's why I'm not legitimizing it by participating in this farce of "democracy" and instead dedicate my life to changing it.

Whichever puppet is on top doesn't change all that whatsoever. Nor will your platitudes about be "accepting the democratic consensus of the many" when I don't have the alternative due to said violence.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Well said. As someone who is going to vote for Biden to keep Trump out of office, I harbor no ill will towards leftists who choose to reject the whole charade. One way or another, we need to bring down the system, and I don't see any evidence that voting for centrist democrats is likely to incrementally move us towards a better system.

On the contrary, it seems more likely to me that Trump would potentially accelerate the evolution of society by fucking everything up so badly that we would have no alternative but to make radical changes.

However, given that I am unable to be certain of the future outcome of each timeline, I believe that voting for Biden minimizes the risk of a worst case scenario. But again, I don't approve of shaming leftists for abstaining, because the reality is that both parties are colluding to maintain the status quo, and ultimately if Trump wins the election its not the voters who will be to blame, but the Democratic party for failing to produce a credible challenger.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

You've got some good points. Keep up the good fight

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

But if you choose to exercise this right you don't get to whinge about the person elected by those who did vote.

roflmao, sorry, that is just absurd.

until the UN General Assembly says that the right to share an opinion only applies to people who vote, you are totally wrong.

i’ll exercise my universal right to complain and have self-determination in government by not voting for genocidal maniacs, thank you very much.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You can refuse to vote but you're still going to end up with one of those two as your president. Are you OK with not having a say about which one it ends up being just to make a point to nobody in particular?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Are you OK with not having a say about which one it ends up being just to make a point to nobody in particular?

Abstention makes a point to everyone in general through the tracking of voter participation levels.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

A choice fostered upon me at the threat of violence is not a choice at all

Indeed. Vote your conscience or don’t vote at all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Yes. While there's nothing wrong with sex work, if you're forced into it to survive when you'd rather not (marriage or cohabitation because it's either that or sex someone to get a low or higher paying job) it's still forced prostitution, and once Mr. Nice Guy has you, it's mask off, 100. Even if you willingly choose Mr. Nice Guy, and the mask comes off, it's a bait and switch, rather than duress and still scummy.

To put it another way, if your choices are die from dehydration or drink poisoned water, dehydration may be less agonizing than drinking from a brackish source.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

You shouldn't not vote. Vote for someone else instead. Vote for the person you want to represent you.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I might register to vote just to write in “thanks for counting the votes” for president - or I guess I could vote for Cornel West, but what’s the point? The abstention would be more representative of my views, at this time, I believe.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Consider this:
Republicans win big this election, including the presidency. Democrats were just very nearly beaten out. They look at who else got votes, and investigate what their platform was. They realize they could co-opt some of those ideas to try and get some of those voters next time. But, if you haven't voted, they have no clue what platform you support or what policies they can adopt to win you over next time.

Swap the parties if it suits you, I'm not trying to make a statement for one versus the other, I'm trying to convince you to vote at all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm not trying to make a statement for one versus the other, I'm trying to convince you to vote at all.

appreciated

But, if you haven't voted, they have no clue what platform you support or what policies they can adopt to win you over next time.

I get what you are saying, but I’m not yet convinced. You did make a dent, though. I’ll let it percolate a while.

They look at who else got votes, and investigate what their platform was. They realize they could co-opt some of those ideas to try and get some of those voters next time.

I spent 20 years voting like that and the democrats have utterly failed to listen to anything other than the social justice issues.

The republicans are fundamentally right about some things (this is a democratic REPUBLIC, afterall) but so fundamentally wrong about other things, that they similarly failed to listen to.

So now, I’m mostly content being in the “no one is listening to me” category.

edit: fwiw, i do occasionally write to representatives about topics that i am knowledgeable about

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

If the woman in the scenario is going to be stuck with the nice guy or Donald Trump, then yes she should tactically choose the guy who isn't an unapologetic rapist. She can influence the nice guy's behavior, and avoid the horror of Trump. She does not have to condone or accept the nice guy's bullshit behavior, and there will be a future.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Your utterly not related nor relatable to reality scenario is pointless.
Should she choose to watch Star Wars or Star Trek after having stabbed both your imaginary scum bag and his friend chad. Has the same relevance to the Election.