WHAT
- Former U.S. President Donald J. Trump was shot at a rally in PA.
TRUMPS STATEMENT
“I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”
WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW SO FAR
- gunman is dead
- Trump "is fine"
- one attendee is dead
- another attendee is in critical condition
News Sources
- CNN - Trump rushed off stage after shooting at Pennsylvania rally
- AP News - Live updates: Shooting at Trump rally is being investigated as assassination attempt, AP sources say
- The Hill - George W. Bush condemns ‘cowardly attack’ at Trump rally
- Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) on Xitter - video interview with witness who tried to warn police before shooting happened
- Sky News - Gunshots reportedly fired at Donald Trump rally - as former president rushed off stage (Article confirms one rally attendee dead)
- Reuters - Biden says he is grateful to hear Trump is safe, has been briefed on shooting
- OAlexanderDK on Xitter - The shooter was on a roof approximately 125m or 400ft from where Trump was standing.
- JakeMRosen on Xitter - An emergency room doctor I spoke with tried to save someone’s life in the crowd
That's not a justification for more violence, two wrongs don't make a right. He was wrong for doing what he did and this is wrong as well. This is because political violence in it's entirety is wrong. Jesus, do people not have principles anymore? Seeing all the supposedly moral people turn into Q anon level conspiracy theorists who condone violence is depressing.
You're right. But let me tell you all about the sympathy I have for him:
That's about it.
Let us take this as a reminder for everyone concerned with their own safety in a fascist state.
Guns wont do shit for you unless you regularly practice your marksmanship and keep your equipment in good condition.
A fascist exercised and practiced marksmanship today, did you, dear reader?
That's when you say I will happily read their obituary
I don't have any sympathy for him either, but that's still not a reason to abandon my principles and start cheering for political violence
Why do you keep saying that when I didn't?
I'm not cheering for political violence
I'm not saying that you are, I'm just pointing out that, in general, lack of sympathy doesn't justify political violence. We're in agreement here.
The death of Hitler, sadam hussein, Bin laden and all the others who threatened the free world disagree.
lmao
While its not perfect you could easily be alot more oppressed. Democracy dies when people stop fighting for it.
The US invaded Iraq under GW Bush on a lie about WMD's. Killed Saddam and countless Iraqis, including journalists, for nothing.
The US invaded Afghanistan rather than negotiate with its ruling power to hand over Bin Laden, then didn't get their hands on him for another decade even though the US won the war and took over the country from day 1. 20+ years of bloody occupation later you lost the war and the Taliban is back in power. Another pointess war started with deception.
Don't get me started on Vietnam.
You guys have some twisted idea of democracy where the 'Democrats' don't even elect their own candidates.
Please stop exporting democracy. The world doesn't want your perverse version.
Hitler killed himself btw.
The US did not really try to negotiate with the Taliban regime. The US just demanded the Taliban hand them over, then refused a quite reasonable condition to show some evidence that Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack.
Conflating a government or regime with an international terrorist organisation is the lie the propaganda told you to accept invading and occupying an impoverished foreign country that had just gone through a famine.
Hitler committted suicide. Any insight in how the other executions actually improved the world?
Millions of fascists were murdered to win WW2, are you saying we should've used strong debate language instead?
But these are vastly different situations. For the record, all three of these individuals used political violence to achieve political aims, that's one of the reasons why history doesn't remember them fondly. The constantly killed people they didn't like under the justification that it's for the greater good or self defense. Saddam Hussien did that when he genocided the Kurds in Iraq and the invasion Kuwait, Hitler did that with the Holocaust and the invasion of Europe, and Bin Laden did that with 9/11 and the other terrorist attacks he launched.
Keep in mind, we actually have a justice system in this country that actually works. If we want Trump to face justice it has to go through the justice where he faces trial and is found guilty based on evidence... which has already happened btw for one of his crimes. That's how justice is handled in a civil democracy. We can't have randos going on self righteous terrorism crusades killing political candidates they don't like. If someone tried assassinate Biden, would you being say the same? Probably not, and rightfully so, but the terrorist who tried to kill would be making similar justifications to what you're trying to make right now. The very idea is wrong.
Donald Trump intentionally and maliciously mishandled an epidemic and allowed it to turn pandemic for his own stupid and shortsighted political gains. He then intentionally hindered national response.
And then he intentionally incited a literal insurrection. He has absolutely employed political violence.
I'm not here to defend him. He's one of the worst of the presidents in our history. His list of horrendous acts goes far beyond his pandemic response and the insurrection, and it goes was past his presidency too. He's truly awful. But with that being said, things like assassinations and terrorism should not become normalized as a legitimate way of achieving political means.
Tell me, should we have turned the other cheek during WWII? Two wrongs don't make a right after all, right?
We didn't join WWII because the Nazis were bad, we joined because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Hitler declared war on the US.
Exactly, should've just turned the other cheek, right?
You inferred something about Nazis, and now what you're saying makes no sense as a response to what I've been asking you.
I'll put it more clearly so you can actually give an answer: When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, you're saying we should've turned the other cheek?
I think this poster is saying: “since you believe two wrongs don’t make a right, then when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the correct thing to do in your view would to turn the other cheek.”
No, I'm just pointing out that your comparison is flawed. We didn't know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over. The Soviets were the first to discover and liberate the camps back in 1944 (too bad they ended up having their own brutal camps) and the Americans liberated the first camp they discovered (Ohrdruf) in April 1945... the war in Europe was over in a month. That's when the then general Eisenhower ordered the American soldiers to find the other camps, free the captives, and take pictures of everything they came across so Nazi crimes can be thoroughly documented and the American public can be made aware of them.
My point is that we didn't intervene in the war because of what the Nazis were doing like you seem to imply, we intervened because we got attacked and declared war on.
It wasn't confirmed until the war was nearly over. But even before then we knew the Axis powers were slaughtering people while they conquered Europe.
Fair, but the situation is similar to what's happening to Uyghurs in China right now. We know something is going on there, but it's not exactly sufficient grounds to invade China and intervene.
Right, but China hasn't invaded another country on top of the genocide.
I mean one could argue that Tibet is an invaded country, but that's besides the point. The only way we would realistically intervene is if China decides to either invade an American ally like Taiwan, Japan, or South Korea or if they directly attack and declare war on the US proper. Even then, it would be quite a stretch for us to have soldiers reach western China, but if we did and if our soldiers found camps where people are imprisoned, then we would have a similar reaction to what we saw towards the end of WWII. However, until then, we don't have sufficient grounds to invade a major world power.
technically two negatives multiplied does.
I didn't say it was. You just put those words in my mouth.
A wrong makes a right if it prevents many many horrible wrongs in the future.
The ends don't justify the means politics, that's how you end up with terrorism, tyrannical governments, and atrocities. I'm all for bringing Trump to justice, but it has be done through civil and democratic means via the established criminal justice system. If Trump goes through trial and is found guilty, which has already happened for one of his crimes, then our criminal justice system will punish him accordingly. If the punishments aren't deemed harsh enough then we reform our punitive laws. We can't have self righteous assholes going on terrorism crusades assassinating political candidates they don't like. That's a sign of a failed state.
Tyrannical governments rise from apathy. The final governmental check is its people.
True, which is why now is the most important time to condemn political violence, get people politically active, and vote to keep the fascist wannabes out of power.
So you're telling me conservatives will realize this has gone to far and tell everyone to remain calm and peaceful?
The reasonable conservatives have already jumped off ship a long time ago and are now mostly either apolitical, independent, disenfranchised Democrat, or still a minority Republican opposing Trump. The only ones left that support Trump are his cult, and they will never see reason. However, we can't get rid them with violence. It's like what America tried to do with the Taliban or Israel is trying to do now with Hamas or what Saudi Arabia has tried to do with the Houthis, you can't use violence to get rid of ideologies. The way to get rid of ideologies is to make them irrelevant. This can happen either by defeating them in democratic elections or using their track records to delegitimatize them or ignoring them or providing better alternatives or whatever. Political violence will only fuel them, and that is something I don't want to see.
Mhmm. Where exactly do you draw the line regarding use of force as a preventative measure?
When it's used as a means to achieve power in a democracy. Normalizing violence is not okay in general, but especially during democratic elections, and this applies to everybody regardless of who does it.
Ikr!
If by rights you mean you human rights then normalized widespread violence tends to do that, that's the whole reason why tyranny isn't exactly good.
What?
the word right has different meaning in different contexts, I assumed you were talking about human rights as in the legally protected privileges that are granted to people... idk wtf you're talking about