this post was submitted on 26 May 2024
1137 points (100.0% liked)

News

29289 readers
3260 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

More than a thousand Harvard students walked out of their commencement ceremony yesterday to support 13 undergraduates who were barred from graduating after they participated in the Gaza solidarity encampment in Harvard Yard.

Asmer Safi, one of the 13 pro-Palestinian student protesters barred from graduating, says that while his future has been thrown into uncertainty while he is on probation, he has no regrets about standing up for Palestinian rights.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 245 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Meanwhile, this is Harvard University senior Shruthi Kumar, who went off script as she gave the English commencement address, slamming Harvard for denying the degrees. She read from notes that she pulled out of her graduation gown.

This should get air time. While the others walked out in solidarity together, she's putting herself on the line individually. It gives administration a name to the crowd.

[–] [email protected] 78 points 11 months ago

There is a video in the article where her speech is aired. Her speech went so hard the word "slammed" might be justified for once.

[–] [email protected] 75 points 11 months ago (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 60 points 11 months ago

Damn that crowd went so wild if they cheered any longer Harvard would call the police to tear gas them.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

where's the piped bot when you need it?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Especially since the posters marked it "for kids" for some dumb reason, so you can't save it for later.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago

Damn, Gen Z is killing it

[–] [email protected] 230 points 11 months ago (3 children)

If we do not stand together then we'll fall alone.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If we don’t stand together, we fall apart.

Pithy and multi-faceted. (Also not mine.)

In looking to credit this, I can’t find anything, but apparently Franklin said “we must all hang together or we will hang separately”, which is 100% the same vibe.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago

We hang together, or we hang separately.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 173 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Asmer Safi, one of the 13 pro-Palestinian student protesters barred from graduating, says that while his future has been thrown into uncertainty while he is on probation, he has no regrets about standing up for Palestinian rights.

I guarantee this person that half a dozen institutions around the world will issue them a degree with full credits already earned just for their standing up for Palestine.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Are those institutions worth as much as Harvard on your resume?

[–] [email protected] 91 points 11 months ago (3 children)

At this point it looks like they are worth more… so..

[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago

As someone who has a great deal of respect for academia, my opinions on the administrations of many average and top universities has declined significantly. In the last month or so.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'd rather doubt it. They worked really hard to get into and graduate from Harvard, there's a reason they got into that school. There's a reason they got a degree there. It was probably their dream. It was an accomplishment they could be proud of, and one they knew that would help further their dreams in the future. To suggest they could just get one anywhere else is dickish.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And after this fiasco I'd wager their feelings have changed.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, probably not in practical terms.

Even if someone is angered by their actions, the employers are unlikely to hold it against those holding degrees, it isn't their fault.

Meanwhile the jobs that only would accept Harvard or similar ivy League won't care about why they didn't actually get the degree, they just see that a degree was not from their precious "Harvard". This may be a hard requirement or just a massive advantage branding wise for your university.

If this weren't the case, Harvard couldn't charge so much to attend, no one would pay.

So maybe if withholding the degree came with a big refund for all the money spent for the diploma they refuse to give, but as it stands....

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (18 children)

Sure, but let's say that, for example, La Sorbonne says they have credits earned for a degree instead.

There are many prestigious institutions in other countries that might offer them a degree.

load more comments (18 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

Very possibly depending on the institution.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 96 points 11 months ago

They are doing the right thing.

[–] [email protected] 95 points 11 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 48 points 11 months ago (22 children)

Trump will arrest all Palestine protesters on day 1 and promote REAL genocide in Gaza. All you anti-Biden assholes can eat a dick because that’s what you’ll get from orange Mussolini.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (9 children)

Nobody here said anything about biden, you're just insulting people unprompted.

Edit: What exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting this?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It is related. Moreover, can't blame him for preemptively calling out the typical bullshit and virtue signaling we've been seeing.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (5 children)

K, and how is that relevant?

In your mind, all these students were "Palestine protestsers" that hate Biden? Can you help us out here? Do you have a full thought you'd like to complete, or are you just scared and angry?

To everyone else, how did people learn absolutely nothing about politics, or even basic communication during the last 8 damn years? Yelling and nagging at people, even if you're right, will always come off as being an insufferable, annoying asshole to anyone that doesn't already agree with you and isn't interested in something you've immediately felt the need to put down because you think you already know what's important

There's plenty of good books out there for anyone interested in learning how to communicate with others, especially those you disagree with - I recommend You're Not Listening or I'm Just Saying as good starting points

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (20 replies)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That’s like 50% of the graduating class?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago

I just checked, and yeah, just over. The graduating class of 2024 has 1,980 students.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

And Genocide Inc recruiters looking closely at the ones quietly graduating.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (15 children)

Graduation is optional. The dream we were sold in highschool of "go to college" was propaganda spun up by colleges looking to pad their books with your tuition. Many jobs you are seeking have apprenticeship programs where they pay you to learn.

College is and remains a giant expensive mixer to find someone to date. That's mostly it. Anything outside of a select few professions can be learned outside of a campus with fresher material.

If you want to learn a profession there is nothing gatekeeping you from doing it.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (8 children)

I can't speak for you, but I personally want a doctor who learned the profession through an organization that gatekeeps people who didn't go to college from doing it.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The gatekeeping happens at the end or after the university and before you enter the profession.

It's generally called a test (or multiple tests) which judge the quality of one's knowledge before one is allowed to practice as an expert in a certain area.

The graduation is the part where the University produces a certificate in which they state that they have indeed tested somebody's knowledge and how good it was determined to be. If a person goes through the whole learning process but don't get that certificate, future employeers might not (in some areas, they legally can't) consider that person for employment in that area (I explain why at the end).

Generally the actual learning is not gatekept: for example, in my area - software development - people absolutelly can do the entire learning outside formal education and still end up working in it professionally, though at the start of one's career one still has to have some kind of evidence of one's capabilities (which in this case isn't provided by a University having assessed your knowledge on it), so normally the path to it that bypasses Academia involves first working professionally in an adjacent area (such as systems administration) and moving from that to software development (good sys admins have to know how to program)

However for "protected professions" (such as Law) or for were the costs of errors can mean death (such as Medical or Civil Pilot) at minimum you have to be assessed including a significant practical period under supervisions (a couple of years for a Medical doctor depending on speciality, 1000h of flight for Civil Pilots, plus specific training each kind of plane they're flying) and that practicing under supervision is lot harded - often impossible - to get if a person didn't come via a formal education setting.

Also in some areas it's pretty close to impossible to get certified as knowledgeable without going through the entire formal Education process, which is indeed unfair and should not be the case - if should be possible for anybody to pay to be assessed and certified without having to pay for the formal learning.

Even in areas which are neither protected professions nor life-and-death, not having the certification which is the Diploma negativelly impacts a person's chances to find their first and maybe second jobs. The problem is when hiring managers get lots of candidates for a position, they don't have time to talk to them all because they also have to do their normal job alongside candidate selection, so instead they prune the list of candidates and not having something that in some way certificates that a candidate has the required knowledge (which for a first job is generally a Diploma, but for latter jobs is going to be previous job experience) is a common criteria because it usually works.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (8 children)

College increases your pay rate and opens the door to research and development, there is no alternative. You're not going to engineer bridges and plan cities without a degree. The majority of Citizen Science papers submitted are students pursuing a PhD, and the vast majority of them have incredibly small sample sizes for data sources.

You're just not going to have a large impact without a degree, and the number of exceptions prove the rule.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That use to be the case for programming jobs, but ever since the layoffs, those with a degree are at an advantage. I was laid off, but it only took me 6 weeks to land a new job thanks to my CS degree. My cohorts without a degree have been looking for 6 months...

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

Good for them, it takes courage to go against the grain.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

That speech and the crowd's reactions gave me the chills.

load more comments
view more: next ›