DOJ is really going at it lately.
I can't wait to hear about the outcome of this litigation in 20-25 years.
this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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Right?
Going after Google AND Visa?!
Even if it's all theatrics, the Justice department hasn't really showed up to work in recent memory and this is a refreshing change from the void abyss DOJ usually haunts
The Bush jr administration illegally made political hiring and firing decisions for DOJ positions. We are just now getting far enough away from that to have the DOJ right itself.
Something something election year. They’ll go back to sleep in December.
According to Cory Doctorow, Rupert Murdoch owned newspapers have made over 100 editorials attempting to smear Lina Khan at the FTC. A cursory google search seems to corroborate this assertion.
I'm inclined to agree that there's nothing 'election year' about these cases, and that real work is being done to claw back some measure of control from these monopolies.
This stuff takes a while to get going.
The FTC sued to stop Microsoft from acquiring Activision in December 2022, but lost.
DOJ sued Google in January 2023, and won their trial last month.
The FTC and DOJ started rulemaking on new merger disclosure and review requirements in June 2023.
The FTC sued Amazon in September 2023.
DOJ sued Ticketmaster/Live Nation in May 2024.
The last two years have shown aggressive antitrust enforcement for the first time in about 50 years, when Robert Bork basically convinced the Supreme Court and all Republicans to impose almost impossible standards for antitrust regulations.
These suits aren't even going to be started by the time the election is done
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Visa should be nationalized. Let the government run the payment processing if we are only going to have only one.
Check out FedNow. Basically a domestic government run payment system. Still pretty new and growing.
Christ...this needed to be major news a year ago. We really need to get banks out of the payment business but fear that they are pulling an Intuit and will make the FedNow system more challenging to use down the road.
FedNow still relies on banks. The only way we can truly get the commerical banks and financial institutions out of the picture is with cryptocurrency (lol) or a CBDC (central bank digital currency). In short, a CBDC would operate like a Government-run Cash App or PayPal and the balance in a CBDC wallet holds the same status as paper money and is legal tender.
I believe that CBDCs are entirely necessary for a digital future. For the everyday citizen, the only form of "cash", as in "Government-issued legal money", is paper banknotes and pieces of coinage. This is wholly insufficient for a system where an increasing amount of business is conducted digitally, and all it does is invite middlemen like Visa to insert themselves like a leech and take profit off every transaction. Banks and financial institutions already have digital cash; account balances at the Federal Reserve are as good as cash to banks as far as the law is concerned, but the everyday layman can't just go into the Federal Reserve and ask to open an account.
This is exactly that CBDCs will solve. Anyone can hold real money (not just a promise to pay money) in a digital format and exchange it peer-to-peer or use it to conduct business free of fees and middlemen.
The only problem is that conservatives in America think that they can't trust the Government, so it's better to trust for-profit financial institutions instead. After all, the banks have never fucked it up before, right?
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I'm
Ah fuck! Did VISA get you?
I'd love to see the federal reserve issue a no fee stablecoin, though I wonder if it would be secure in the long term with quantum coming.
Why would the government put time into making fake money when they can just make more real money?
Because electronic payments that do not require a middleman are inherently better than funneling everything through centralized organizations like Visa. They could make their own dollar based blockchain that has secure and private transactions based on their own stablecoin. It would be the same as a cash payment.
Again, why would the government waste real money doing that with fake money, when they can do it with real money instead? What benefit is there, over just being a regular processor for real money? Because it's definitely not the inability to reverse transactions in blockchain systems, that's more of a feature for criminals.
I have a very strong feeling that @[email protected] is being downvoted here, not because they make a bad point, but because they phrased it in terms of cryptocurrency which immediately triggers negative reactions from everyone.
What OP has proposed is neither novel, nor a terrible idea. In fact, economists call it a central bank digital currency. And yes, some countries have adopted it. It's usually not run with a blockchain, but that's because if you have a trusted central entity to run the system, that being the central bank, a blockchain is inferior in practically every aspect to a normal relational database. That's why all current CBDCs still use fairly traditional accounting systems.
Your use, however, of the terms "real money" and "fake money" has, I believe, the effect of shutting down intelligent conversation, rather than encouraging it. "Money" is a social construct. "Real money" is whatever the Government declares to be "real" and that the population is willing to use. It doesn't need to be physical money. And it is unquestionable that in the countries that have adopted the legal framework that allows their central banks to issue CBDCs, the money so issued this way is as real and legally equivalent to paper banknotes and metal coins.
I struggle with the idea that "real money", even as crypto, needs to be centralized and easily tracked. It's not just about crime, it's about privacy. The federal reserve doesn't need to know the movements of every single individual. If I lend you $10, and you don't pay me back, it's both embarrassing for me and embarrassing for you, but we're good friends and this is just between us. Maybe you could provide that sort of anonymity on a relational database, but it doesn't have to be centralized. The blockchain tech gets faster and faster and not everyone has to be a full node, they could just run it at banks, maybe even with a bridge to other systems.
Anyway, I understand where people are coming from, blockchain was ruined by cryptobros and scammers. It's not an inherently evil idea, it may be inadequate in speed as compared to Visa, but the idea that I could take the middleman out of any business while still having common listings, and make it a conversation between a supplier and consumer is fundamentally good. We do not need Sabre or Expedia taking 15% of every hotel or airline booking. We do need Uber's secret pricing on rideshares. Very little value is added by middlemen in those transactions, where, in the end, the reputation of the provider is paramount- and yes, things can be set up so that provider can be vetted by third parties. The promise of blockchain is not NFTs, it's freedom to do business in a different way, and some of the limiting factors holding it back are the lack of clear regulations for the industry, and a trusted stablecoin network.
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It would be real money if the federal reserve issued it. Cash still exists, is that a feature for criminals or does it benefit the poor and unbanked?
It would be real money if the federal reserve issued it.
No, as you said, its a stable coin backed by real money.
Cash still exists, is that a feature for criminals or does it benefit the poor and unbanked?
Cash transactions can easily be reversed, unlike blockchain, but nice bait.
Cash transactions can easily be reversed, unlike blockchain, but nice bait.
Literally the opposite is true...
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I have the most incredible news for you about this crazy new thing called... cash.
More seriously, there's no reason government bodies shouldn't just create a central digital transaction system with real money, instead of pouring resources into the stupidity of a blockchain system. Save everyone a lot of trouble and wasted compute cycles and just make the source of trust in the system the fact that it's administrated by a trusted central authority running a database, instead of the various shell game wank of blockchain systems.
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These network transactions cost between 2 to 4 % for merchants, which is a cost passed to consumers by businesses raising prices. That's a fairly large "inflation", and certainly it seems out of line with the effort they out into it. It's anticompetitive practices that keep it in place.
Fwiw debit card transaction are capped around 21 cents per transaction depending on the size of the bank holding the account. You’re right for credit cards though. Also, imho, I’ve never seen merchants pass along these debit card savings to the consumer. With they would though.
I've never heard of that cap! Any references.
Also, imho, I’ve never seen merchants pass along these debit card savings to the consumer. With they would though.
Gas stations do! But not really passing the savings, just flipping it by penalizing credit cards.
They can easily say, "Actually it's 0.10 off by using a debit" as opposed to "it's 0.10 more for using credit".
From the federal reserve directly : https://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/boardmeetings/frn-reg-ii-20231025.pdf Also, I guess what I meant is, the cap used to be 45 cents, and when it was reduced to 21 cents, there wasn’t some massive reduction in prices of products for consumers. Merchants just pocket that difference.
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And the merchant terms are getting worse and more arbitrary.
About time.
For reference, visa charges about 1.5%-3.5% on everything.
Oh, plus ten cents for every transaction, because fuck you, that's why.
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The DOJ isn't going after this, but VISA is also the source of all these fucking porn bans on like Tumblr and shit because if you want to be able to use their payment processing, you also have to follow their fucking puritan ass values.
Honestly, if this kicks that secondary issue in its ass, that's amazing.
I don't think it will help with that, the war on pornography is only going to get worse.
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Well after living through 2008, I am convinced the DoJ will magically forget about thise whole thing in a few years lol.
I wonder what the world would be like if that IBM source code which is the backbone for all financial transactions and payment gateways weren't tightly controlled proprietary tech.
More fraud maybe, but less nickel and dime trickle upwards.
Obligatory fuck IBM they are largely patent trolls at this point adding zero value to anything.
Let's not be too hard on them. They have a rich history of working all over the world in a variety of roles.
After all, what other company can you name that helped operate Japanese internment camps in America and Nazi Concentration camps at the same time?
Fucking wüff, what a resume
The only thing of value at IBM now is Redhat. And there are a lot of people who aren't happy with some of the decisions they made with Redhat.
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What are you referencing specifically? I work in payments and I've never heard of this IBM code. The card networks just use an ISO format and every front end is different (the two we have are completely different in very fundamental ways though they are definitely both old as fuck).
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