this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 99 points 6 months ago (7 children)
[–] [email protected] 53 points 6 months ago (5 children)

cameras do NOT make the roads safer. it's a revenue stream based off ripping off it's citizens. if anything everyone slams on their brakes when they see one causing more accidents.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Why on Earth is this unfounded argument getting upvoted so heavily? Objectively the science says that it reduces injuries and deaths. Per the linked Cochrane systematic review of 35 studies:

Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

People on the Internet will just upvote the most confidently incorrect shit as long as it has enough confidence behind it and it vaguely aligns with their preconceptions, I swear.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I think the sentiment against them stems from the fact that there are ways to reduce speeds without feeling like they're being used as a revenue stream.

Personally I like when there are warning signs saying "Speed camera in use ahead" since it has the effect of slowing down traffic and not feeling like a "gotcha" moment.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Maybe just drive the speed limit?

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

Except they do make it safer and because there's always tonnes of signs around them you don't get the brake slamming. They act as a deterrent. Plus accidents at lower speeds are inherently less dangerous.

Mobile speed traps, however, are a definite revenue boost.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (10 children)

they do not post camera signs in US

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

Sure sure, the speed cam after the slope in the woods is for safety, mhm.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I mean I don't know how you could think it wouldn't be. Well signposted camera will help you pay more attention to your speed on the slope, it's woods so presumably animals could run out at you.

If you can't see a bright fucking yellow speed camera, and haven't been paying attention to the ten dozen signed, then that's 100% on you.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago (11 children)

They are hidden here, not yellow bright.

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[–] [email protected] 86 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (18 children)

Lemmy: Fuck cars!

Lemmy: Fuck the police!

Lemmy, when someone sabotages the most viable alternative to traffic stops to prevent people from speeding: Yes very good. This is good for society.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 6 months ago (10 children)

Source on speeding cameras working for anything other than revenue generation?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (3 children)

If that were the case, they would be hidden.

They are a deterrent for speeding most of all.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 6 months ago (8 children)

The most viable alternative to traffic stops is a narrow chicane with solid bollards on either side, although oher traffic calming devices are available.

Traffic cameras exist to generate revenue, not to make the streets safer. Intersections with red light cameras almost always have shorter yellow lights, to increase revenue while making the intersection less safe.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (2 children)

How is this not "fuck the police" it's a camera, controlled by the police, to surveil people.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I dunno if you've tried, but I'm here to tell ya, cobble stone streets will absolutely stop speeding really quick.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Speed traps are just a tool to further monetize and rent seek car culture in the absence of public transit.

You can, in fact, hate both cars and infrastructure that exists solely to make using a car more expensive.

the most viable alternative to traffic stops

I have never heard of a town that reduced the size of its police force after installing a speed trap.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They do not exist solely to collect revenue, although they certainly do that as well. They have been proven time and again to reduce speeding and fatalities, as other commenters in this thread have pointed out. As far as using traffic cameras to reduce police forces, I haven't been able to find that exactly, but there are plenty of examples of deploying traffic cameras to work around a shortage of officers which works out to the same thing.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Traffic cameras ARE the police...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago

Shitposts!? On MY shitposting community!?? It's more likely than you think!

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

[email protected]

The absolute entitlement.

Edit: For those not wanting to read through this whole thing, speed cameras have been shown objectively in a systematic analysis of 35 studies to reduce traffic injuries and deaths.

Thirty five studies met the inclusion criteria. Compared with controls, the relative reduction in average speed ranged from 1% to 15% and the reduction in proportion of vehicles speeding ranged from 14% to 65%. In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.

Authors' conclusions: Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

Edit 2: That being said, speed cams are objectively helpful aren't the sole tool we should be using. Traffic calming is enormously beneficial and cost-effective for making places with roads safer for drivers and pedestrians.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 6 months ago (12 children)

Is it the cars, or is it police using laws as revenue generators that intentionally affect the poor disproportionately?

[–] [email protected] 53 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

Would it generate revenue if people didn't feel so entitled to put others' lives in greater jeopardy to get to their destination 30 seconds faster? No? Not speeding is the easiest thing in the world; it's an objective number not to exceed that you directly control and that your car tells you in real time, but at least in the US, drivers are in an arms race to see what kind of bullshit they can get away with, making cops less likely to pull them over. This means that when the average driver can – without warning and with precision – be dinged for speeding, they throw a tantrum about it and act like they've been victimized.

Ticketing does disproportionately affect the poor, and we should reform ticketing to change based on income, but can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the people doing this are doing it because they're protesting socioeconomic injustice? Or because they're entitled drivers who want to be able to speed with impunity? It's the drivers here being entitled and thinking that they're above the law. Personal vehicles are a privilege, not a right, but drivers don't treat it like one. Over 100 people per day die to motor vehicle crashes in the US alone, and kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity; if drivers don't like speed limits, they're more than welcome to stay off the streets and stop thinking their personal convenience trumps people's right to life.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (2 children)

These cameras do nothing to improve safety. There is no meaningful scientific evidence that shows any difference improvement in safety.

Their only value is socioeconomic harm.

“after accounting for MVC increases in the control segment we found that neither camera placement nor removal had an independent impact on MVCs. In other words, speed cameras did not statistically contribute to an increase or decrease in the number of MVC.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/#:~:text=after%20accounting%20for%20mvc%20increases%20in%20the%20control%20segment%20we%20found%20that%20neither%20camera%20placement%20nor%20removal%20had%20an%20independent%20impact%20on%20mvcs.%20in%20other%20words%2C%20speed%20cameras%20did%20not%20statistically%20contribute%20to%20an%20increase%20or%20decrease%20in%20the%20number%20of%20mvc.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (6 children)

Your own study links to a Cochrane systematic review which states the following:

Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

You linked a study that took place along a single 26-mile stretch of road in Arizona, and while it does some good toward controlling for confounding variables, a single, highly localized study simply isn't as robust as a Cochrane systematic review.

Moreover, the study you link focuses on the number of collisions, while the Cochrane review focuses on injuries and deaths. What we were talking about before was – say it with me – injuries and deaths because of entitled, speeding drivers.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago

A recent Cochrane review examining 35 studies investigating the effect of speed cameras on speed and collisions concluded that although the quality of the studies was moderate at best, the consistency of all studies to report a positive reduction in either speed or collisions was impressive

That's 35 for and one against, due to heavily manipulating no less than 5 different variables, in order to force themselves to have to conclude that speed cameras don't improve safety.

Read your links folks!

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You are allowed to drive the speed limit, even if you're poor 😇

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Not if the speed camera runs your plates to determine you're poor and notifies the police of an inbound precariat, letting them use their psychokinesis to entrap you into speeding.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 6 months ago (1 children)
  1. if you drive at the speed limit you won't have a problem

  2. the speed camera will be well signposted (car on the left so this is the UK) while it's not a legal requirement that they have signposts I've never come across a fixed camera that isn't

  3. If you don't break the law you won't have a problem

  4. the camera is painted bright yellow for visibility

  5. once again for the those at the back who are hard of thinking: don't speed and you won't get fined

  6. usually for first time offences if you're just a bit over the limit you'll get the option of a speed awareness course.

  7. You've probably come to expect odd numbered points to tell you to not break the law by now, so I'll mix it up: if you get caught breaking the law and get a slap on the wrist, don't keep breaking the law.


I do agree though that the fining structure should be reformed, it should be a percentage of income with some provision in place so the super rich can't get out of paying their appropriate share too.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (7 children)
  1. If you don't break the law you won't have a problem

this MF is a bootlicker if I've ever seen one.

there are a million ways a cop would fuck you over, primarily being "not white" or looking at them wrong, NOTHING to do with law.

I'll give the UK a break as they're not nearly as bad as the US, but cops are not your friends and that sentence quotes is a joke.

"if you got nothing to hide, let me search your car"

fuck no.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (1 children)

People trying to argue with this point, but the point is that if the punishment for a crime is fine, then the crime only punishes the poor.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, can you imagine? Cars actually driving below speed limits and not risking everyone's lives? Good thing this buddy makes side we can all speed like idiots instt

[–] [email protected] 39 points 6 months ago (20 children)

If only speed cameras worked to lower the speed anyone travels at... Realistically, people are going to drive the speed that feels safe for that road, and a speed camera is just going to disproportionately punish people without the money to pay the fines.

Make roads that are designed for the speed you want people to drive at, not wide open expanses that give no actual reason to slow down.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 6 months ago (13 children)

If only speed cameras worked to lower the speed anyone travels at

They do. They objectively do. How are there so many people all over this thread just confidently asserting complete, disprovable bullshit, and why is it getting upvoted? From the Cochrane systematic review:

Thirty five studies met the inclusion criteria. Compared with controls, the relative reduction in average speed ranged from 1% to 15% and the reduction in proportion of vehicles speeding ranged from 14% to 65%. In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.

Authors' conclusions: Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 6 months ago (4 children)
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[–] [email protected] 29 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (18 children)

If speed cameras are less biased than humans when issuing tickets, I see them as a fairer method of speed enforcement. Also safer for BIPOC individuals to receive a ticket in the mail, as opposed to a roadside traffic stop.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Reminds me of a past mayor of the city I live in. One of his talking points was too get rid of the speeding cameras in the city. He came into office and did a photo op covering the first camera. A few weeks later his son died due to an accident caused by wreckless speeding driver in City center.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

Speeding cameras wouldn't have changed that.

“There is little evidence” that automated traffic enforcement is an effective tool at either “improving traffic safety [or] limiting violent interactions between law enforcement and drivers during minor traffic stops ... when enforcement is predicated simply on the assessment of financial sanctions," the group Fines and Fees Justice Center argued in its report.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/03/20/is-automated-enforcement-making-u-s-cities-safer-or-just-raising-revenue

Not to mention, many cameras are hidden and create false positives. They get mailed tickets and have to spend a day in court.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 months ago (2 children)

One could enhance it into an art installation with thermite.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago

Looks like they should do the cameras in a different order.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago

As in a camera that catches people for speeding? Sounds like some bootlicker behavior if you ask me

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's well in the shade already.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago

Just wait until the turtle turns a little.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago

Who took the picture?
The speedcam cam!

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