Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.
As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades:
How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world:
Recommended actions to cut greenhouse gas emissions in the near future:
Anti-science, inactivism, and unsupported conspiracy theories are not ok here.
How dare they damage the frame of an artwork and make the curators have to wipe off soup from the protective plexiglas, while leaving the artwork entirely intact?
How dare they throw easily-removed biodegradable cornstarch-based paint onto Stonehenge? Don't these monsters know Stonehenge is made of such fragile stones?
But it potentially could have damaged the lichens which will totally not be affected by climate change!!! Won't someone think of the lichens?!
They got sentenced for vandalizing irreplaceable art, not for ‘throwing soup’.
People who damage culturally significant, irreplaceable things to get attention for their cause deserve this kind of punishment or worse. They have the same mindset as the Taliban blowing up cliff carvings. And they lack the intelligence and creativity to bring attention to their cause without destroying things.
Do we need to fix our societies destruction of our own planet’s habitability? Yes without question. This isn’t the way.
They didn't damage it. They did throw soup at it.
Their tactic is also working. You're aware of the event, who they are, what they stand for, and why they did it.
Their lack of success is irrelevant. They tried to damage it.
I was already aware we're destroying the planet. I don't need stupid kids trying to destroy art in a museum to inform me about that.
They tried to damage it.
You say that like they were somehow shocked to find plexiglass in front of these paintings, and somehow didn't see it or didn't have the time (casually perusing a museum) to pivot to a different painting.
You're assuming that they scouted this and carefully planned it to ensure they wouldn't cause damage. I doubt that.
This also assumes that the painting's protection is perfect. What if there is a flaw in the glass or a seam that lets the liquid get through somewhere? What if they accidentally threw the can while throwing the soup and it cracked something? Would you blame shift to the museum for not protecting their artwork from vandals properly? That would be ridiculous. I don't want to see every painting behind a glass case when I go to an art museum, either.
It's not worth the risk to such a artistic treasure just for attention seeking or 'awareness' of something totally unrelated. Last I checked Van Gogh wasn't part of the petroleum industry when he was alive. This kind of vandalism is stupid.
The should be doing shit like this to petroleum company offices.
The should be doing shit like this to petroleum company offices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Stop_Oil#Protests
They do. And those protests get little coverage and large prison sentences.
You're assuming that they scouted this and carefully planned it to ensure they wouldn't cause damage. I doubt that.
The canvas of the painting is protected with a glass screen, a factor Just Stop Oil said they had taken into account.
The people who vandalize Ferraris and private jets also get into the news and don’t damage irreplaceable cultural artifacts.
Are you... seriously advocating for vandalizing Ferraris here? What the fuck?
What they're doing is fundamentally harmless. You do realize that these paintings are behind glass, yeah? It's not like they're throwing soup directly onto canvases. They're damaging museum glass at worst. The dollar amount of the damage is relatively minor, the whole point is civil disobedience and to draw media attention.
Your climate change is really inconvenient for me. Can you reschedule for 10 years? \s
I haven't heard of these events.
can you provide a news link for that?
They really really don't though.
I like how confidently wrong you are.
People who damage culturally significant, irreplaceable things [...] deserve this kind of punishment or worse
Removed unnecessary caveat
Boy you're going to hate to find out what oil companies are doing
I come from a hoarding home where everything was important. My approach to preservation is colored through this lens. At some point we either exist solely to preserve artifacts created before us or we learn to let go. Not every Van Gogh or Picasso in a museum’s collection will be put on display and many museums struggle to maintain their hidden collections full of what curators would honestly call junk art of interest to only the most specialized of scholar. Assuming we only keep the “best” samples (that’s another debatable topic) there will be a point when we simply cannot collect any more art or culturally relevant things any more, similar to the eventual trade off between graves and arable land.
Hoarding aside, why are you not arguing to prosecute oil as hard as these folks? The number of indigenous cultural sites across the world destroyed by drilling astronomically outweighs the number of paintings with soup on them. Sure, we can prosecute both, but I don’t see you saying that either.
What defines “irreplaceable art”
A good place to start would be art made by a great artist that can't make it anymore, usually because they are dead.
How much of the earth’s resources are we willing to dedicate to “culturally significant, irreplaceable things”
I don't think the footprint of the world's art museums would even show up on a chart when you consider waste or climate impact.
I'm not arguing to "prosecute oil as hard as these folks" because that's not the discussion we're having. That's just what-about-ism. But since you asked, I think just about every C level in the oil industry should be in prison for the harm they have caused and the coverups they conspired to perpetrate while doing it. That's not relevant to the discussion of 'activists' trying to destroy art to get headlines.
I agree with their message, I completely disagree with the method of delivery.
So only art in museums is culturally significant? Made by artists who are dead? What about buildings? Religious places? Graveyards? Note that these are things I called out in my first comment so I’m not trying to move the goalposts here. You highlighted the Taliban destroying cultural places so, by your definition, we must include those and since we can’t displace any new ones must be added.
I completely disagree that the footprint of the world’s art museums is minuscule. Museums today already have problems with storage. In order to meet your definition for art, museums must continue to expand their collections. As the number of people grows, the number of artists grows, increasing the supply of art. How do you define “great artist” without proportionally increasing the number? As fields specialize, so too do the “great artists” that define mediums.
What about books? Records? Movies? How do we decide what to keep here?
I don't really support defacing art either, but at the same time, it's not like the art is gonna matter if the planet burns, is it? The only people who'll still be around to enjoy it are rich people, and they'll probably just ditch it the moment they realize it doesn't have a monetary value anymore due to societal collapse.
So what's the point? Throw soup at art (in Minecraft). Throw grenades at yachts (in Minecraft). None of this will matter soon (in the real world).
Of course it won't matter if the planet burns. But as a great philospher once said, "until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on." Destroying art can't be undone. Throwing hand grenades at yachts would be way better, assuming nobody gets hurt. I still don't condone it (because somebody will get hurt), but nobody is going to give a shit if some asshole's yacht goes to the bottom of the marina.
I'm sorry I didn't realize we were all in the art museum to see the frame.
I agree, people who damage irreplaceable things (for example, our planet) deserve worse.
Pourque no los dos ?
If the earth is fucked, the art won’t matter anyway. Fossil fuel companies continue to ruin the planet and expensive art is something that only the wealthiest can afford. So I view this like I do BDS: an attack on the things the wealthy need and want (money) because it’s the only attack vector available to the working class. The art is secondary to the message anyway. You don’t have to support the tactics but it helps to understand how we got here and recognize that extreme responses to extremely dire situations are going to become more commonplace as things inevitably get worse.
Also, the art has protective plexiglass over it and soup wipes off.
Because Oligarchs own the world
Fuck those shitheads for vandalizing art.
If you really need attention there are plenty of expensive things without cultural value to future generations.
is the environment of the earth not of cultural significance to you?
We had to destroy culture to save it!
How about no.
That doesn’t answer my question.
Do you value the environment?
Fuck your false dichotomy.
Relax. Maybe get off the internet for a minute. If not, actually read the news. They didn’t destroy any art. These paintings are well secured in tamper proof little boxes. They can wipe this shit off or put the art in new ones.
You are the one succumbing to a false dichotomy here.
It is and I don't agree with the sentence - way too harsh, especially considering that the art was undamaged.
That said I feel, while there should be some punishment for almost running a work of art for future generations and the ends do not justify the means - it basically feels like the cause (saving the Earth) wasn't taken into account here. Also, the "almost" part wasn't either - they're treating it like these were vandals who successfully destroyed a valuable work of art forever because they were bored.
That's .. ridiculous. Especially compared two the guys who got off with a suspended sentence because they beat up a cop or two for fun.
i expect future generations would see any damage to the art as part of its extended story and its place in stopping climate change
They didn't almost ruin it though. It's not like they tried to destroy it and we're lucky the defenses held. They explicitly chose a painting and an act that would not result in damage.
fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you
Why do you care more about a painting frame and disrupting a day at the gallery than the likely prospect of entire fucking inhabited islands being submerged? Will you hide in an art gallery when millions of refugees are pounding at your door demanding the entirely reasonable right to resettle in the less ravaged land of the climate ravagers?
What have you done to try target oil execs? How much money have you put on the line paying the legal fees of people that target them? Have you risked your safety and freedom in radical protests?
From what position do you criticise them? What do you see as the likely outcome of the future? Do you see people living like you changing that?
Didn't know plexiglass had so much cultural value.
Art isn't going to matter if noone is alive to look at it.
At this point destroy the paintings for real. Not to demonstrate against oil or climate stuff but to demonstrate against the sentencing. Not "just stop oil" but "stop unjust jail time"
You're right. They got off lightly
🥾👅
I bought high altitude land in the hopes that it will eventually become beachfront property. C'mon, climate. Change!