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If you are an American voter and you sit this one out or vote 3rd party and Trump gets in you are directly supporting escalation and taking whatever little restraint away that Netanyahu is feeling from the USA.
Instead of calls for restraint you will have cheerleading from the sidelines.
I honestly think if you can't be bothered to vote you need to shut the fuck up, not complain and keep your political opinions to yourself. If you're not even gonna vote, shut the fuck up. I don't wanna hear it.
C'mon enlightened lefties! Come on and tell me how you won't be voting for genocide and we should follow so the Democrats figure out through losing the election that they should court lefties. Nevermind we get 4 years of, "he's doing a good job" as long as Democrats learn to denounce genocide.
C'mon you fucking cowards, get in here and sell me on how Trump winning helps solve your single issue voting on genocide.
I'm voting for Harris. She shouldn't be supporting genocide and neither should you.
Absolutely no disagreement there. I don't condone genocide, and think we should do something about it but I'm not foolish enough to think not voting for the lesser of two evils accomplishes this. We are in agreement.
This is ignorant as fuck. First of all, there is no more reliable group of voters in the country than progressives. Not even MAGA members have shown up at polls as reliably for Republicans as the left has for Democrats. Still, the Democratic establishment whines about leftists staying home to excuse their pathetic losses, and morons eat it up.
Also, even if there were any kind of truth to this narrative, trying to win an election by shaming voters is dumb as fuck. No voter who is as fickle as you think the left is, is going to decide to show up because you shouted insults at them. This isn't a strategy to win elections, it's a strategy to excuse losing them.
It's not "left" voters saying they will stay home, not in significant numbers. It's Muslim voters or, more precisely, it's voters who know the names of the people being systematically slaughtered with US weapons. While I agree that voting Democrat is the best bad option for Palestinians, I can't get behind shaming someone for not voting to elect someone unrepentantly responsible for blowing up their loved ones. If they can't stomach voting for Harris, I don't blame them.
There are a bunch of "leftists" on lemmy arguing till the cows come home that leftists mustn't vote for the Democrats on the grounds that Kamala Harris is personally responsible for genocide in Gaza, who are able to both-sides any and every criticism of the Republicans. They advocate not voting and voting third parties, anything, really, as long as anyone with a conscience over Gaza excludes themselves from affecting whether Kamala Harris or Donald Trump becomes president. They argue that losing to the right wingers will push them left, but I think it'll drag them to the right where the votes are, and that if you withhold your vote when the alternative is someone who promised to be dictator on day one (and more recently says he'll send the military to deal with "the enemy within", which is apparently left wing folk), your vote isn't winnable anyway and you've excluded yourself from the very effect on voting you claim to be having, but none of that makes any difference to the people calling themselves leftists who want trump to win.
Yeah, super ignorant take that purported lefties on Lemmy are playing spoiler under the guise of condemning genocide.
The post was for astroturfing fucks on Lemmy. Way to miss the point.
it’s quite different from Trump’s bombastic rhetoric: He has repeatedly said that Israel has to “finish the job.” The former president’s Friday comments appear to be an attempt to paint Biden, and by extension, Harris, as being less supportive of Israel than him
Trump wants genocide escalated and completed on a faster timetable. If you don’t think that includes the West Bank in the long-term plan, you’re being naive.
Biden is trying to get a ceasefire deal from a madman. Harris needs to win the election and can’t if Israel turns against her. Trump actively wants to commit accelerated genocide on Palestinians.
Anyone who is pro-Palestinian and is thinking about voting for Trump needs to be aware of the long-term consequences.
Anyone who is pro-Palestinian and is thinking about voting for Trump needs to be aware of the long-term consequences.
*Anyone who is pro-Palestine and is thinking about not voting or voting for anyone other than Harris, just to be clear.
The foundational lesson of the trolley problem is not about the effects of the two options, it's that not pulling the lever is a choice too.
Third-party voters, I know the psychological reaction to being told you "have to" vote for Harris causes you to dig in further, to be more contrarian. I know the feeling. So to be clear, you don't have to do anything. But we can't escape the ethical and moral effects of a choice not to mitigate harm. The dominos are lined up, pushing the one that says "Stein" or "No choice" will cause the one that says "Trump" to fall, it's as simple as that. Our moral culpability doesn't end at the ballot box, it ends at the end of rational foreseeability.
The right takes an oversimplified view of reality to avoid confronting complicated truths. Don't be the same by thinking if we ignore a difficult moral choice, it goes away. Trump is telling you what he plans to do. Stopping him is a moral imperative if you want to save as much life as possible.
What now "genocide" folks?
Still think Trump is the better choice for Palestine and Gaza??
Rather unfortunate for you that the folks complaining about dnc being 100% complicit and funding the genocide, have never ever claimed that Trump is the better choice.
Also I love the genocide in quotes, really says all you need to know
It’s not that the claim he’s a better choice, the claim that he’s not a worse choice.
From a purely strategic perspective, is this wise of Trump?
My impression is that even many American Jewish people don't like Netanyahu. And he doesn't need to remind anti-Harris protest voters that he's even more anti Palestine. Many MAGA diehards don't even like Netanyahu.
Like... who is he appealing to? Older Republicans, I guess, who remember Israel's early days?
He's appealing to people that hate Muslims.
And people who think the rapture starts with a holy war in Jerusalem.
If he can keep steady poll numbers after an insurrection, my guess is that this won’t impact him at all.
Oh, I don't think there's any political calculation to 99% of what Trump says anymore. This is more about how much he likes "strongmen". Hell, lots of folks in Israel don't even like Netanyahu anymore.
This dumb fuck is gaining in the polls.
I just…can’t anymore
Keep in mind that the polls right now are also being flooded with right wing aligned groups
Honestly, is there anyone alive today with more blood on their hands than Benjamin Netanyahu?
It's sad to say, but yes. Gaza is a horrific tragedy, but it is an admittedly small corner of the world.
The Palestinian health ministry has reported 40,000+ Palestinian dead. Meanwhile, George W. Bush is responsible for the deaths of over a million Iraqis following his completely unnecessary invasion of Iraq. He's still kicking, probably using some of that blood on his hands for the painting he does now.
Putin is also pulling comparable numbers as Bibi in Ukraine, though that conflict has been going on for a little bit longer than the one in Gaza. But that's also not counting how many of his own men he sent to their deaths, which is estimated to be over 100,000.
Henry Kissinger would also be on this list but thankfully it's been almost a year since his long-awaited demise.
And that's really only looking at conflict. Not factoring in others who are responsible for large-scale humanitarian crises that may end up killing many more people just from disease or starvation.
The Palestinian health ministry has reported 40,000+ Palestinian dead.
That only counts people who get found, obviously it doesn't count the tens of thousands who are dead or dying under the rubbel. The real number is probably an order of magnitude higher.
Trump's response to covid. Putin's entire career. Kim Jong Un's slow starvation of his entire fucking nation. But Netanyahu is up there and we should stop letting him write our foreign policy.
"He's doing a good job,"
thanks, Hitler
Trump wants, and largely has, the "Nuke 'em all and let God sort 'em out!" vote.
And yet, if comments on this site are to be believed, he's still also getting the, "We refuse to vote Democrat because we're against the genocide!" crowd (sorry guys, but not voting or voting third party is a vote for Trump. You cannot escape it).
True. I think it's more about whether Harris can pull in the "genocide bad" folks, or loses them to third-party protest votes. Of course if any of those folks were paying attention to the crap coming out of Trump's mouth, they'd understand how much worse Trump will be. I had folks (hexbear and .ml of course) on a different post telling me that not only would Harris and Trump be the same on this, but that Harris would actually be worse. And of course they're willfully ignoring how bad Trump would be on everything else.
I have a suspicion that part of what's pushing Harris' campaign strategy right now to focus on courting more "centrists" is that they know whatever she did to appeal to the left that's not voting for her would never be enough to satisfy them. Far easier to court the middle with straightforward messaging than to appeal to a voting bloc that is already determined to hate anyone that's not as chaotic as they are.
True. I think it’s more about whether Harris can pull in the “genocide bad” folks
I haven't seen her try. Have you?
Like clockwork...
I almost feel powerful due to my ability to summon them.
Thanks for proving my point.
Not that you'll read it, but I think this might help explain:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/kamala-harris-israel-policy-palestine-gaza-war.html
Perhaps Harris’ loudest statement, however, was prefaced by her absence. Shortly after getting the nod from Biden in July, Harris snubbed Netanyahu, skipping his speech to Congress. (She spoke to a Black sorority, instead.) The next day, she met privately with him—later describing their talk as “frank and productive,” words that your boss might use after a performance review goes poorly.
The reaction to her remarks was underwhelming at the time, but the remarks themselves were extraordinary. “We cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering” of Palestinians in Gaza, “and I will not be silent,” she told reporters and cameras. “Israel has a right to defend itself—but how it does so matters.” It was as close as a sitting vice president could possibly come to reading Netanyahu for filth without creating a diplomatic crisis.
If you're exceptionally fascist, Trump will allot you extra praise. This is earnest as well - it's because he was mentored by a fascist type personality in Roy Cohn - and raised by a ruthless racist Capitalist in the form of his father who refused to rent his properties to black people (putting a 'c' on their applications to indicate they were people of color).
Disconnection From Reality #29874
People not voting bcoz of Gaza are fools bcoz that genocide will continue immatter of who is in the white house. US support will continue.
Biden's actions have shown there is no restraints, so has Harris's. I am not believing anything Trump is saying.