this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2025
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From ‘eh’ to ‘meh’? Pride and attachment to country in Canada endure significant declines - (angusreid.org)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
52 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Figured as much. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/angus-reid-poll-canadian-pride-1.7425408

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Jesus christ, we're still polling on values like nationalistic pride? Don't get me wrong, we're not doing awesome right now, but fervent, aimless pride in the piece of rock I was born on isn't something I value.

Actually, after reading the article: the collective response for "I have a deep emotional attachment to my country" and "I am attached to my country as long as it continues to provide a decent quality of life" was 84% in 1991, and is 81% as of the most recent poll. People are just substantially more inclined to agree with the latter. So we've moved away from blind, fervent nationalism, and instead recognize that the goal of the state should be to provide a good quality of life for it's citizens, and agree that Canada is doing a good job of this.

...fucking good? Nationalism is down, and satisfaction with our country remains the same. This is a win, and it's kind of insulting that the headline, and discussion here, tries to suggest otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Miss the point some more. Patriotism/Nationalism is directly related to whether or not there's any regard for the government, federal in particular. That's gone. You are a direct result of the "post national state" someone wanted to build. You wanna know what happens when nationalism really tanks? YOu get guys like me that could seriously care less if the states took over tommorow, one eastern bullshit federal government is the same as another

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

I'm believe your the one who has missed the point. The data provided is being misinterpreted to suggest that Canadians are in some way disgusted by their country. A closer look at the data reveals that this is not true. They just believe that the state is responsible to them, rather than the other way around. Again, the percentage of people who value their country has not changed much, so it's not "Canada" that anyone is upset with.

I'm not sure why you feel so strongly about attaching your personal value to a national identity. You are more than the piece of dirt you were born on. You don't need to attach your entire conceptualization of self to the happenstance of your birth.

This whole self-loathing thing seems like something you should be looking inward to fix, not something you should be looking to your government to fix for you.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Canadians are disgusted by their country, go talk to some. I'm gonna give the rest of that the respect it deserves by ignoring it.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Anyone who's not at least a bit disgusted by their own country needs to learn more about their country's history.

Fuck the Catholic Church and old Canadian governments creating boarding school for indigenous people! It's impossible to be blindly proud of Canada, but it's still an awesome country.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No. It isn't. I don;t know why it is so hard to distinguish that the country is the government, The people are just people.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (11 children)

Because that's simply not true. A country is not its government. Look at literally any revolution in the entirety of human history and that's an obvious fact. The peoples, the cultures, the social norms that give a country the distinct feel that defines what it is survives beyond any given government.

The Canadian government works for, or at least is supposed to work for, Canada. It is not Canada in of itself. I'm so sorry that you feel so disenfranchised that you seem to believe otherwise, but we collectively decide what out country is. No elected official gets to decide it for us.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh come on get over that. We should not feel bad for what others have done. I hate this B's of we must be shamed for what the past has done.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Acknowledging the past, realising/feeling bad things were done, and deciding future choice need to be better is not the same as personally feeling shame. Feeling responsible for a better future and feeling responsible for bad past decisions are independent concepts.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Right, my anti-nationalism spiels goes both ways. I don't think we should feel a personal sense of shame for the things others who came before us have done. But that lack of personal shame doesn't take away being responsible for the future. I've been advantaged by my forefathers at the loss of others, and that makes me responsible for using that advantage to give back. That is not the same as feeling shame for the circumstances of my birth.

Even outside of politics, I tend to preach a philosophy of accountability, but not blame. Blame is "I should have done better," while accountability is "I can and will do better."

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

And yet, the data you've provided disagrees. 81% of surveyed Canadians either are deeply and emotionally attached to Canada, or are attached to Canada as long as it provides a good standard of living for its citizens. Regardless of how you or Angus Reid attempt to spin that data, it's right in front of you: Canadians are not disgusted with our country.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sure but you need some nationalism. Our military cant recrute enough people which mean our already pathetic army well get more pathetic. Olson get people who could care less if America took over.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

Why do we need a strong, aimless, nationalistic pride to see value in having a strong military? It's a job like any other that provides a service a group of people, in this case the country. To go back to the statistics this thread is discussing, the shift from having "an emotional connection to canada" versus "being attached to Canada as long as it provides a good quality of life" doesn't reflect a population that is completely unwilling to work for the Canadian military. Just one that expects to receive good living for doing so, as they should.

Likewise, I don't think caring about if America takes over should have anything to do with national pride. I don't want to be a part of America for a long list of practical reasons, from the fact they the country doesn't at all share my values, to the complete disregard America seems to have for the fact that Canada is about as diverse as America, and the notion of governing it as one state is about as sensible as governing Florida and California as one state. I don't need to drink the nationalism Kool-aid to recognize that joining America would be a horrible thing.

We should fight tooth and nail for our existence as a country because joining America would be a fucking horrible thing for many of our peoples, not because "hoo rah, Canada!"

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I mean, build a country with a functional economy and social mobility, and maybe people will feel more pride

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

Well no shit. Instead theyve used every opportunity to squelch that. Sellers market for employees? High wages? Better import 2 million people fast.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You say that like it's everyone else's job to do that. So long as you (and by extension everyone else) carry that attitude, nothing is going to change.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

No one knows how to do that. Global civilization is in decline. Canada’s been very lucky to be mostly free of war but that’s about it.

The true problem of democracy is that it’s the government of a million tiny special interests, each of which screws over the entire society a small amount in order to benefit themselves a larger amount.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What's to be proud of? The fact I have to wait three years to see certain medical specialists currently? Or the past of genocide and racism?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I waited 2.5 years for a surgery once, showed up, it was cancelled, they referred me to another guy, showed up, he gave me a steroid injection, said i should have been getting those every three months for the last 2.5 years and refused to schedule another appointment in 3 months.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Really makes you wanna belt out o canada!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sometimes I think Trudeau has such a hard on for gun control because he realized he's the first PM who is gonna need american style security till he's an old, old man. Every other PM just kinda slid back into normal life but he's not gonna have that privilege. Can't think of anyone pissed the public off to this degree in Canadian politics since his dear old dad.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do you not remember Harper? That man was/is despised outside of Canada almost as much as in it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I remember him clearly, Preston Manning, Stockwell Day, Brian Mulroney. Even the most unpopular of the three never earned himself that visceral, down to the bone hatred in a ridiculous number of people. The odd "Stop Harper" sticker on traffic signs vs a whole country awash in "Fuck Trudeau" flags. They're even common in the lower mainland of BC. More to the point, like Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, and Harper too, they needed minimal security for a short period of time, if at all, after leaving office.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

I mean, lower mainland of BC is full of religious rednecks. Particular pockets aren't much different than rural Alberta.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The other 3 never had to contend with the hyper-polarizing brainwashing machine that is Facebook and other social media platforms. That's the difference.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Man, all you have to do is watch the six oclock news over a few years to come to that opinion of him.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What province and when?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

BC years ago

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

There are faults, but also benefits. My dad recently had heart trouble over new years and within 4 hours of arriving at the ER, he was triaged, brought into emergency, had two ekgs, a cat scan, an ultrasound and consultation with a Cardiologist, then transferred to a private room in ICU

Within another two days he was transferred to another hospital to get an angioplasty and then an arterial stent, then released two days later with a months worth of prescription pills for $50 since it was the new years and the deductible still needed to be met before they were free.

I would take that over America's system any day.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

The Angus Reid poll suggests a connection between income level and Canadian pride. People with incomes below $25,000 were less likely to be proud of Canada (48 per cent), while those with income above $200,000 were more likely (65 per cent), according to the poll.

Westlake is not surprised that one's finances might influence their love of country. "Cost of living is up, access to health care and access to doctors is something a lot of people are struggling with. Housing prices are up," Westlake said. "We're coming out of a period of quite significant inflation. So you have a bunch of these things that hit people in their pocketbooks that tend to shape public opinion in all types of situations that probably reflect poorly on incumbent governments."

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I've never been one for feeling pride in my country, but the fact we're all being bled dry by inflated costs of living and greedy, government-sanctioned monopolies isn't helping these statistics. So, yeah, fuck this shit hole of a country.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I feel like the very situation you lament is caused precisely because of people with your attitude who basically just roll over and give up on making this country better. I have no sympathy for apathy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

This is essentially the same as blaming people for their own depression. People need empowerment if they're currently feeling disenfranchised and powerless-- especially if they're also depressed or anxious. As an analogy, if someone is upset about something, they often need some empathy before they can listen to anyone tell them how to "fix" a problem. (Especially if the "fix" creates other problems they're not sure how to cope with.)

The reason fascists are making such great strides again as living costs and loneliness are on the rise is because they're very effective at acknowledging people are hurting FIRST (without minimizing or shaming them for hurting in the first place). Then they go on to set up the scapegoats and reinforce the in-group dynamic.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Where did I say I was rolling over and giving up? I just said I have no attachment to my country and that it can go fuck itself.

I vote. I write to my MPs and MLAs. I support local businesses. I use alternative transportation when possible. I help educate my family and friends and what options they can take.

Could I be doing more? Absolutely. But being unhappy with the status quo doesn't mean I'm not doing anything. Don't put words in my mouth.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Opinion polls don't reflect anything but how a non-representative subset of the population who have enough time on their hands to be interested in filling out polls respond to the specific question on the poll, which is often very carefully worded in an attempt to elicit a particular answer.

Blindly loving your country is an immature stance anyway. It implies you're willing to overlook its faults rather than fixing them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Blindly loving your country is an immature stance anyway. It implies you're willing to overlook its faults rather than fixing them.

I've always thought something similar, especially when I see people in some places who seem to make their country's flag their entire personality.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

If you think that's a rebuttal to my take, better start rereading.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As a British Columbian I always feel like Canada doesn't care much about us. Federal policy is almost entirely favoured towards Quebec and Alberta, and often elections are decided before BC even finishes voting.

I care not if BC stays Canadian or if we become cascadia with Washington, Oregon, Alaska and California. I feel like we have more in common with them than other provinces.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

You think....Federal policy favours Alberta? What are you smoking?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

Alberta hates on Trudeau but he fucked over BC for an Albertan pipeline. And Harper before that was definitely more pro-alberta than pro-bc. I can name more federal decisions that benefited Alberta than those that benefited BC that's for sure.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Alberta is a squeaky wheel, it gets a lot of grease. Plus it's still the spiritual and political seat of the modern Canadian conservative movement.

Not seeing this is not seeing how places not call Alberta, Ontario, or Quebec are treated federally.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Didn't the federal government buy a pipeline that cost every Canadian (tax payer or not) like $800 each? A pipeline that one of the provinces it passed through didn't want?

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