this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2025
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[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 75 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Missed the point again award. If people want to vote for conservatives, they're going to vote for conservatives, not conservatives lite. If people want to vote for leftists, they're going to vote third party, vote for the dipshit threatening to tear it all down, or stay home, not vote for conservatives lite. If you'd take a few seconds to really use your noggin, you'd understand that people are fucking drowning and desperate for a change. Not "lol the guys at the Goldman Sachs fundraiser said we should think about a 1% COLA for social security", I'm talking burn the house down and start over change. There's a reason why there's the phenomenon of the Obama-Bernie-Trump voter or Bernie-Trump voter. It's not the sexism, it's the promise of change. Obama failed to deliver, and Bernie didn't happen, which just leaves us with that fucking guy. The democrats miscalculated twice and thought that voters surely wouldn't vote for that fucking guy over their promise of change so mild that even fox news would get bored. It's not the voter's fault that the democrats failed to put forward a good platform. To the Democratic party and the people towing this line, I say: voters don't owe you victory. In fact, voters don't owe you a goddamn thing. Stop blaming them and get your shit together or get out of the way.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 41 points 2 months ago

When Democrats move to the right in order to capture conservative votes, conservatives don't believe they're sincere. But the left does.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 2 months ago

I don’t even want the democrats to get their shit together. I want them to get the fuck out of the way. That party needs to go the way of the fucking whigs.

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 27 points 2 months ago (13 children)

Probably still would've been less bad if people voted for the lesser of two evils though

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 18 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Maybe. There's an argument for accelerationism. I'm not convinced of it yet, but clearly the system has entrenched interests that benefit from things being awful for everyone else, and the majority power in the Democratic party has showed that it's all too willing to roll up its sleeves and make minor adjustments. Most folks don't have 3000 years to wait for the democrats to finally adjust things to where they need to be, and in the case of climate change, we certainly don't have that time. Yes, pushing the system to collapse is going to be fucking awful, but I actually wonder if the net suffering will be less than waiting however long it takes for the lesser evil to turn good.

[–] absentbird@lemm.ee 11 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Biden did more to battle climate change than any president in living memory. Trump has done the opposite, we don't have another four years of runway to speed the collapse, the time for revolution was when Bush stole the election.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Dude, we're just not going to meet the climate goals we need to. Not with Biden, not with Trump. We need someone that's not afraid of the owner class bitching and moaning and withholding donations, and our system simply isn't wired that way.

But I'll bite, what did Biden do to address climate change, and what's the tangible impact?

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[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Very fucking right. It's toe the line though if you're interested in improving things in a very small way.

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[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The AOC+Trump voters would also fall into that category

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[–] timewarp@lemmy.world 66 points 2 months ago (3 children)

If Trump is a conman, rapist, fascist, etc. & Democrats still lost to him, says a lot about how shitty & out of touch Democrats have been, maybe you should focus on that?

[–] GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 49 points 2 months ago (19 children)

Or it shows that when you are truly awful, racist, homophobic, transphobic, idiots, your children move away from you to the cities where they don't have to talk or interact with you, which concentrates the intelligent and worthwhile portion of the population into blue centers that aren't evenly distributed across the electoral college?

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 22 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Which is generally true, but he also won the popular vote. That's an indication that being awful is less important to most voters than being entertaining. The lesson I see here is Dems need to focus more on engaging rhetoric than silly trivialities like "competence" and "beneficial policy"

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Trump's narrative, despite being just a makeover of the political establishment, is that he's anti-establishment. Democrats are just nakedly the political establishment with clown makeup pretending to be "progressive". Trump's message resonated with his audience, the Democrats' message didn't. Both of them are genocidal maniacs that are using nuclear weapons to hold the entire world hostage. Let's keep our eyes on the target here.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago (12 children)

He isn't anti-establishment though, except that he's more concerned with self aggrandizement than practical policy. Democrats are establishment that occasionally align with voter needs, Trump is 100% aligned with his own needs, which occasionally defy the establishment when there's a conflict with his interests.

Again, this comes down to messaging, i.e. rhetoric. Not in content, but in vibes. The Democrats need to pay more attention to vibes, rhetoric, than content. You're just repeating what I said with different words.

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (17 children)

I am not repeating what you said, we have fundamentally different understandings of this system. Trump and Biden are both puppets of an imperial machine. You are trying to play strategist for the Democrats, my interest is in ending the machine. You are under the illusion that Trump emerged out of left field and is operating of his own accord, I am aware that he's just a slight rebranding of establishment policy made to look like some kind of wildcard.

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago (17 children)

Nothing the Democrats did mattered because the truth didn't matter. Propaganda, lies, and foreign interference lost the election.

[–] Uruanna@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

I'm pretty sure one major reason Trump won is that he wasn't in prison. Which is fucking weird since he tried to overthrow the country!

And Democrats lost because no one wanted to vote for them.

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago (20 children)

Nothing the Democrats did mattered

So what we saw was what Democrats did when nothing mattered? When there were no boundaries? They supported genocide. They adopted Republican border policy. They ran anti-trans hate in their own ads. They cozied up to Dick Cheney. They showed us what they really are.

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

It seems this one did matter:

Asked whether there is anything she would have done differently than Biden over the past four years, Harris demurred.

“There is not a thing that comes to mind in terms of — and I’ve been a part of most of the decisions that have had impact,” she said, going on to talk about the administration’s work capping the cost of insulin at $35 for Medicare recipients.

She appeared to backtrack on that answer later in the show.

“You asked me what is the difference between Joe Biden and me — that will be one of the differences. I’m going to have a Republican in my Cabinet,”

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/08/harris-biden-the-view-00182883

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[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 19 points 2 months ago

DNC is stuffed by imbeciles who sold out. They are not here to win elections, they are here to make sure that democrats never shill anything pro pedon class.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 62 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

I was also on the side of vote for Kamala fix it after because with Trump fixing is impossible with Kamala maybe. But whenever I see stuff like

45 Democrats Vote With GOP to Pass Bill Sanctioning ICC Over Netanyahu Warrant

Senate Overwhelmingly Rejects Sanders Resolutions to Block Arms Sales to Israel

it makes me doubt how feasible this approach would be too. Sure Kamala is factors of magnitude better than Trump for the USA, for Ukraine, for LGBTQ people, for women etc. But I can understand a US citizen with roots in the middle east etc not voting for Democrats after seeing disgusting stuff like this.

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

"PATRIOT Act" passed Senate 98 to 1. Partisanship is for complete morons.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago (2 children)

45 democrats didn’t vote the way you want? And how many republicans didn’t? Are you really saying both sides are the same?

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No they are not but I am convinced that about 2/3 of the democrats don't give a shit about the party they are a member of nor its voters. If their only opportunity was to be a republican candidate they would jump at that opportunity without any internal moral conflicts. And I understand how frustrating it must be when a majority of a party that you are told to vote for has no moral issues with bombing a country where your relatives live to the ground.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There are 215 Democrats currently serving in the house. The 45 that voted with Republicans don't even make up a quarter let alone 2/3.

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[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

two different wings of the same shitbird…

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[–] Vinny_93@lemmy.world 61 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Bruh that's crazy about that dude's virginity

[–] korendian@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'm so confused, why is that there.

[–] Vinny_93@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (7 children)

I'm actually less concerned with the OP but more with how George Takei feels the need to double down on it

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[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 40 points 2 months ago (8 children)

At least centrists didn't have to move left.

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[–] hark@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago

*ignores voters*

*loses election*

"heh, stupid voters"

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (18 children)

More brilliant political analysts who still haven't managed to figure out the reason both parties near-unanimously support genocide. Have a downvote, on me.

Also, Dems lost, what was it, 10x as many votes as people who voted third party?

And notice where your outrage is actually directed here. Not at the people who actually VOTED for Trump. It's at the people who refused to compromise their morals AT ALL, unlike you all, who completely compromised your morals in a failing bid to elect Mrs. "Genocide With A Facelift".

Fuck Republicans, fuck Democrats. That moral superiority you so desperately want to claim, does not exist. You are the problem. You are the driving force behind the empire. You are responsible for their deaths. Take your attempt to blame actual activists and people actually struggling to make the world a better place, and shove it right up your ass.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 15 points 2 months ago (33 children)

Fuck the Republicans and fuck the Democrats, sure. But voting is about politics, not making a personal moral statement. That kind of thinking is dumb as fuck and would have been self defeating in every election since George Washington. Politics is always about compromise, and compromise about issues that matter is always a punch in the gut. Effective activism is about winning what you can, taking the hits, and showing up to do it again and again.

Voters who had a choice between two candidates that both support a genocide are not responsible for that genocide. I know a few things about moral reasoning, and no moral system I'm aware of would ever come to such an insane conclusion.

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[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 months ago

You got the downvotes but not from me! Fuck these people. They’re so fucking dumb it’s painful.

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 24 points 2 months ago (7 children)

BlueMAGA is literally Russian propaganda. Anyone who uses the term unironically is a troll.

[–] dx1@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I use it unironically and just think you're an idiot.

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[–] laserm@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

I mean you guys elected that asshole..

[–] Juice@midwest.social 18 points 2 months ago

Privatized gains, socialized losses except instead of losing money, your daughters die of a miscarriage in the waiting rooms of hospitals

[–] BlueMagma@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 months ago

For a second I thought I saw my name and was confused what this had to do with me :-D

[–] GhostedIC@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 months ago

I'm glad we have a sexual assaulter to tell us how it is.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 11 points 2 months ago

bLuEmAGa were the ones who skipped an election

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