You did it "undecideds" and "both sides" people: You saved Palestine! /s
this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2025
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I agree with you. To anyone who still pretends Trump and Kamala were equally terrible with regard to Palestine: Kamala vocally supported an end to the war* and a two-state solution**, a prevailing US diplomatic philosophy. Please watch what Trump said tonight— it is so much worse than that. He advocates for the full removal of Palestinian people from their homeland.
*it is a genocide and not a war, I disagree with her.
**a two-state solution is not adequate as long as Israel continues to act as it does currently. Free Palestine. I disagree with her.
Kamala vocally supported an end to the war
She also said she was unwavering in her support for Israel and would keep arming them.
Remember when Trump said he would lower the prices of groceries? Do you judge him on that, or on his actions? Why is it different for Kamala and Dems?
You know, "empathy" isn't just "I feel bad for people sometimes!". Empathy is the ability to place your self in other people's shoes. So now let's practice some empathy. Imagine you are Palestinian, and you live in Gaza. Israel has bombed your neighbourhood with American bombs. Aid has been withheld from you and your family. Other hospitals and aid workers have been bombed by American bombs. Journalists are being shot with American supplied weapons and ammo. Some of your neighbours or friends - who weren't killed - have been captured and are being raped.
Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - what fucking difference does it make that Kamala "vocally supported an end to the war"?
Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I've asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn't just vague abstract BS like "but Trump said".
It seriously astonishes me that the one situation where there is no difference between Reps and Dems (except for the words they use while doing the same thing), is the one situation people decide to shout about how much better Dems would be than Reps.
Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - what fucking difference does it make that Kamala “vocally supported an end to the war”?
Because it means we haven't been completely been written off yet, public pressure could improve things. So you'd want the person who controls your fate to at least pretend to have empathy, not the maniac who used 'Palestinian' as a slur.
Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I’ve asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn’t just vague abstract BS like “but Trump said”.
There was still a Palestine. Now there won't be. It's really not that complex. There is a clear difference.
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Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - **what fucking difference does it make that Kamala "vocally supported an end to the war"?** Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I've asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn't just vague abstract BS like "but Trump said".
This is the easiest lob you could give me. It's because HISTORICALLY it has been easier to get organized and get Dems to change their minds than it will ever be under Trump. His son-in-law Jared Kushner has been openly talking about beach front property in Gaza over the last year and courting land development deals.
If you think Kamala Harris would have gone on the news with Netenyahu and said she was going to use the AMERICAN MILITARY TO TAKE GAZA, you are actually out of your mind. Once again, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S POSITION. I DO NOT THINK THEY ARE DOING RIGHT BY THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE. But we were already seeing movement regarding limiting arms and funds to Israel, and Biden's ceasefire. The public backlash was actually gaining momentum into the House. We were seeing congress people speaking out against Netenyahu and the Biden administration getting both internal and external pressure for a pause in arms.
And then, boom, Trump elected.
There is actually no hope for a free Palestine under Trump and a Republican House and Congress. They don't care about optics, they don't care about international relations, they will use all the military and money they have to make sure that Israel becomes the "holy land" they need for their Christofascist rapture.
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Actually, I just read one of your other comments, and you know what's extra bullshit? The fact that you're telling people you're not even American, but you're still trying to justify why people shouldn't have voted for Harris.
Under previous administrations, Palestinians in the United States were able to claim refugee status for their relatives and get them out of Gaza.
Now, that's gone.
The news cycle were able to report on everything going on in Gaza, and have people paying attention to the actual atrocities happening (never mind what's happening in Sudan and Congo).
Now, Trump and Elon dominate the news cycle.
So many people were willing to donate to Gofundme's for the people in Gaza to help them cross the border to Jordan/Egypt, or have enough money to at least buy food/shelter/medical treatment and survive until the ceasefire.
Now, people are losing their jobs or in such economic uncertainty DUE TO THE DIRECT ACTIONS OF THE TRUMP ADMIN there is no extra money for mutual aid.
The fact that your idealogical purity stance FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY has destroyed so much of the mutual aid mechanism surrounding Gaza and you don't even realize it is the most tragic part. I do digital infrastructure work pro bono for an organization that helps Doctors Without Borders, and guess what? The employees there have been furloughed due to the USAID freeze.
So yeah, Kamala and DonElon...totally the same fucking thing, right?
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It's kinda fascinating how every single comment section about another Trump news is filled with folks dogging on a minority who voted third-party and not the, what was it, third of the country (?) who didn't vote at all.
Do you all really think that those who trully didn't vote because of the Palestine would somehow change the final outcome? Were they that numerous?
This is a genuine question, I'm not trying to be snarky.
Given the highly political atmosphere of Lemmy, I have the impression that most users vote hard. Most in the liberal side were vocal about their desire to vote Kamala to prevent *gestures broadly* from happening. However, users from the tankie instances, amounting to a third of lemmy, regularly decried the democrat option, instead urging protest votes or abstention.
The world isn’t lemmy, lemmy is lemmy. And lemmy has plenty people to clown on for actively choosing this.
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America has a FTTP voting system, so time has distilled its presidential election into to 2 real choices. This was one, and the milquetoast status quo party is the other. By that merit, not voting for one party helps the other party, though not as much as voting for the opposite. In our case, the opponent of the milquetoast party is the crypto Nazi party.
I'm not the other person you replied to, but personally I think there was a clear choice between the two candidates in regard to which one was better for the Palestinians given their track records. Granted, maybe not good enough in these voters opinions, given that they enabled a genocide in the first place and refused to swiftly correct that action.
Besides billionaires and straight, white, conservative, "Christian" men, I honestly don't know who benefits from a Trump/Musk presidency as compared to a Harris/Walz presidency.
I get that democrats weren't good enough, they rarely are in my opinion either, but I do consider them better than this. And yep, she and Biden enabled a genocide, no argument there. I even empathize with those that feel adamant that either we have justice all, or justice for none. But I think we are a little frustrated that in the fatalistic protest, Kamala's opponents ensured the doom of not just Palestinians, but women, LGBT+ folk, and likely many more.
But hey, price of eggs and all too, right?
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After seeing this sentiment expressed for the 50th time on similar threads, I’m more convinced than ever that: 1.) Many Democrats prefer beating up their left flank to actually opposing Republican ideology, 2.) Many Democrats are somehow pleased that the genocide is proceeding in this fashion because they both get to genocide Palestinians and beat up on their left flank. If Kamala had won, they would have only been able to enjoy half of these pastimes.
Nah. We're all just pissed that these shortsighted idiots decided to try and make a point about biden/harris and trump/vance being the same for Gaza/Palestine (which, clearly, factually, in every possible conceivable way, they are not), and in so doing, ended the longest running democracy in human history, to say nothing of making our lives a fucking hell for the next however many years until this shitshow is over or the country implodes.
It was idiotic, we told them it was idiotic, they argued against it, and they chose to let trump win and now we're all stuck with the fucking bill of their stupidity. All of us.
So yeah, I'm fucking pissed at them, and the trump supporters. At least with the maga asshats you know you're getting idiots marching on parade. We were counting on the dems not being a bunch of fuckwits.
But here we are, sitting in a shit timeline, eating a shit sandwich together.
A sandwich we all said we'd have to fucking eat if this felon rapist piece of shit clown got elected again.
It's just so fucking exhausting. God fucking damn it, and people like you trying to blame those of us that went out and voted and tried to keep democracy going for another round. We're not the bad guys here, and we absolutely get to fucking bag on all you dipshits that chose to let this happen by not exercising your right, and fucking DUTY, to vote.
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I'm so fucking tired of seeing this comment, because it's just so unbelievably dumb. It would make (some level of) sense in posts about Elon taking over the government and immigrants being sent to Guantanamo Bay, but here? Like, just genuinely fucking stupid. And yet people keep fucking making them in all news threads about Palestine.
Can anyone here actually show me examples of people saying that Trump wouldn't do this? Because all I saw was people saying that Palestine is going to be fucked regardless, and they didn't want to cast their vote for someone who was going to support genocide. Meanwhile, comments like this one imply those people thought Palestine would be saved by not voting for Dems, which is a straw man.
Did you guys just forget how much happened under the Dems, and think Kamala winning would actually have improved things for Palestine? Is that it? Do you think it's somehow worse for Palestinians now?
Here is an article from July 2023: Israel Is Officially Annexing the West Bank
December 2023: Nearly 100,000 Gaza buildings may be damaged, satellite images show
9th of August 2024: ‘Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape
30th of August 2024: Harris says she won’t change US policy on arming Israel, stresses need for hostage deal
Stop with this comment in Palestine posts already. It's seriously the dumbest fucking place you can make them. Go make these comments in a post about Trump censoring scientists or something.
EDIT:
So many downvotes across all my comments here (at least 26 in this comment as of right now), but not a single person has managed to actually answer me. No one can show me people who voted third party (or didn't vote) saying that Trump is better for Palestine, and no one can answer how are things materially and concretely worse for Palestinians under Trump. Someone even tried to lecture me about how Trump is worse for America - as if I hadn't literally said that already in this fucking comment.
This is why people use the term "Blue MAGA"; it might not be as bad as Trump MAGA, but it's just as delusional and cult like. The one way in which Dems and Reps are the exact fucking same, is the one that people are choosing to shout about how much better the Dems would have been. If you are one of those people, next time you are thinking to yourself "why are so many people uncritical, unquestioning, believe everything they hear, and have a tribe mentality, etc.", look to yourself for the answer.
Gonna leave this thread now, so any further replies I will answer when I am back on.
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Yeah, alienating people for not supporting genocide is such an excellent move. Did you happen to work as a strategist with Harris campaign because this is right up their alley.
When you refuse to pick the lesser of two evils, what you are actually saying is you're comfortable with either one.
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It's a fucking war. Sometimes the only option you get is to put off losing. We didn't do that, in no small part because of idiot idealists who apparently refuse to understand a concept so basic even chimps get it. Now, thanks to that and SO much more, even being hopeful is approaching the realm of deluded fantasy.
I have no problem alienating people who think their own precious idea of morality is somehow so sacrosanct it can't be compromised even to actually save the lives they pretend to care about.
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If Biden didn’t allow Israel to flatten Gaza we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t veto ceasefire at the UN multiple times we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t send the bombs to Israel we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t lie about the rape and beheadings we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden didn’t provide Israel with the political cover, including proposing sanctions on the ICC, we wouldn’t be here.
If Biden did what Reagan did in 1982 and demanded that Israel stop, we wouldn’t be here. Instead in private he was an enthusiastic supporter of Israel’s war in 1982 as he evidently was during his presidency.
I could go on…
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Just a not even remotely friendly reminder that if you are American, eligible to vote and didn't vote for Kamala then you actively voted for this. Actively voted for genocide. If you didn't vote you're even fucking worse because at least the Republicans were willing to openly say what horrible people they are. You just don't care.
The United States is a failed country, a terrorist state and should be wrenched away from its people. You do not deserve to have a country that large with that much power when you are incapable of agreeing on a singular fucking thing. The United States should be forcibly broken up into at least 2, if not more, countries that can make up a trade bloc. This bullshit of getting everyone killed from coast to coast because of your pathetic patriotic ego of "wahhhhhhh but my countryyyyyyyyyy"
Fuck the United States.
I want to say I'm amazed at the shit fucking takes to justify awful choices that directly lead to a fascist overthrow in response to your comment. But these types love to justify their choices even though they directly lead to an open fascist takeover of our country because BoTh SiDeS bAd because they couldn't be bothered to engage in harm reduction and are ok with Gaza getting glassed and a probable trans genocide at home.
Fuck anyone who uses genocide to justify the situation where we now get more genocide, they never actually cared about it in the first place aside from talking points. Either that, or talk is more important than action. Either way, their opinions are meaningless to me as I help my trans homies survive.
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Just a not even remotely friendly reminder that if you are American, eligible to vote and didn’t vote for Kamala then you actively voted for this.
Don't try to spin logic. The red and blue party were both and has always been unified in supporting the fascist israel government in getting rid of gaza. People who chose not to play the rigged show the US government put up with elections is doing way less harm to humanity than the ones actively voting and supporting murderers.
Underrated comment here.
The Dems knew people were pissed with their support of the genocide in Israel, because several states had large percentages of people who voted 'undecided' in the Democratic primaries with the stated purpose of communicating that they wanted the US to stop sending WMD's to Israel.
And, like usual, the Dems just ignored it, and opted instead to literally help Genocide Joe stack bodies until his final day in office. Kamala, when asked what she'd do differently, replied: "Nothing comes to mind." Indulging she and Joe's arrogance was given more consideration than child genocide. Think about that.
As much as people hate hearing 'both sides', this is very much a both sides issue.
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Their strategy is to overwhelm the news cycle with distractions. Stay focused.
All, please read this article (NYT gift link) - this IS and has been the strategy. Blitzkrieg policy while distracting the "stupid" media with outrageous, ultimately meaningless distractions.
From the ever flatulent Steve Bannon: "All we have to do is flood the zone. Every day we hit them with three things. They’ll bite on one, and we’ll get all of our stuff done."
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On what? It's all crazy. "We're going to invade Gaza" is just as insane as "we're going to put 18 year olds in charge of the Treasury", "eliminate the department of education" or "win the war on diversity".
Yeah people keep saying "this is just a distraction" to, like, very single story. So what are they distracting from? Please tell us, because all of it is fucking awful.
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Panama, Greenland, Canada, Gaza, what else? The world?
new zealand's underground movement to keep it off world maps about to pay off.
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"It seems that there might finally be a temporary peace in gaza... wait, it's, it's, BY GOD IT'S THE US COMING FROM BEHIND WITH A STEEL CHAIR"
Punk rock predicted this.
Propagandhi - Haille Sellasse Up Your Ass
"The West Bank, The Gaza Strip, soon will be parking lots for American tourists, and fascist cops"
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I'm starting to adjust to the Trump term and learn how not to be disappointed with these news stories - here's my one simple trick:
Expect news tomorrow to be worse than today, in ways you can't even imagine. Each day repeat this process, with new baseline lowered expectations from the day before. It's that easy!
the thing is, i expected 'bad'. we got 'worse' instead.
then i expected 'even worse', and we got 'what the fucking hell?' repeatedly.
and it's been downhill with no end in sight, since.
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Trump is a real estate guy. That's why he wants Canada and Greenland: lots of undeveloped real estate. Never mind that the reason for this is given by being non-developable.
And now Gaza: he actually thinks that he just has to move a few million people somewhere, and turn it into his personal luxury resort.
Do you want another 9/11? That's how you get another 9/11.
Its not shocking because he told us this plan last month.
I recall reading months ago that Jared Kushner visited and was calling it prime beachfront property then. 🤷♂️
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I knew it will end up like this when protest non-voters said they won't vote for "Holocaust Harris"...
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Trump doesn't speak for his citizens. "Trump" is the one who wants it
Shock
To people who weren't paying attention probably
"Shock", only people getting shocked are the centrist that arent far righters but actually believed in the shit they spread. But as always nobody learns from anything.
