Absolutely "shocked" I tell you.
this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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loudly places hand on side of face
This is dumb.
Even if you encrypt network traffic, the receiving server still knows what you're doing. All it does is prevent third parties from snooping.
Usually.
Yes, so not only are they doing something shady, they're doing something shady and exposing your data to anyone wanting to snoop it. What's dumb about criticising the latter part?
The fact that anyone thinks they have any semblance of privacy when typing into an online AI chatbot is saddening.
Of course anything you type into a externally hosted AI is going to be harvested and sold.
But sure, in this case you are also potentially exposing your queries to your ISP or someone listening on your local network too.
Regardless of the downstream server, you should expect the interim traffic to be encrypted in transit
Sure, it's not a bad thing and it should be standard practice, but to act like encrypted traffic guarantees privacy is silly.
The thing is that with the traffic unencrypted it opens the door to all sorts of attacks on that traffic.
It’s not just privacy.
If you can intercept and interpret you have the ability to replace as well.
This is the integrity of your data
Tell me where in this thread are anyone expecting privacy from any online LLM service, or anyone saying encrypted traffic guarantees privacy?
Privacy is not the same as security
Yep it also prevents anyone in the airport impersonating the WiFi and the bytedance server (which is trivial) and crafting payloads that run insecure code on your phone ( not that easy but there's heaps of CVEs like this in apps like Safari over the years, so there's at least 2x as many in an app like this)
Maybe they want 3rd parties snooping?
If you are implying that a government wants your data, they can just buy it or request it from the company directly. They don't have to snoop to get it. Also SSL isn't going to stop them.
Oh, no. I don't mean USA government. I do mean some governments, but also any company between here an there.
Imagin that your company wants to sell user data. There are limits on what your company can sell due to contracts or laws, due to having a relationship with the customers.
Your company leases internet connections from another company, ISP or not, that can sell the data.
Sending the data without SSL provides an okay, if not ideal, method to move that data.
The hell? There’s no reason to use plain HTTP instead of HTTPS.
And symmetric encryption is wildly irresponsible as well.
Not for s second do I believe this was a accidental oversight.
I am sure they had very good reasons, all alligned with their actual interests with no thought spared to even consider consequences for small fish users.
i just can't think of any. like the article says, i fully expected the app to send data to china. but even if you are maliciously spying on users, why would you send the stolen data on unsecured channels? so that everyone in the path takes advantage of the data your wanted to steal?
Sounds plain sloppy lol
Badest AI, rookie opsec
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Yep I'm with you.
It's so easy to use https with secure encryption. It's the default. You have to go out of your way to use s symmetric key or to even allow http without SSL in xcode or Android studio.
Well many of China's websites don't even use HTTPS. Look at china.org.cn, or en.people.cn for example
Depends on how much traffic you're talking about. Encrypting/decrypting isn't free.
It’s trivial compared to the compute they dedicate to AI models. Like, not even a rounding error.
A penny saved is still a penny saved. I'm not saying it would amount to much, but it is non-zero.
These are completely different systems. It doesn't make a difference.
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How the fuck do I explain this boner, now?
Ah, the ol' Blahaj Pik-a-choo
And that's why you use local instances...
True, but you need powerful server in order to run the most capable Deepseek model, which most people don't have.
That’s an understatement. It won’t even fit well in 8xA100, you need an EPYC server to run it in CPU RAM, very slowly.
To run the 671B parameter R1, my napkin math was something like 3/4 of a million dollars in hardware. But that (plus the much lower training cost) made this a millionaire's game rather than a billionaire's. Plus the distillations do seem better than anything else we have at the smaller sizes at the moment. That said, I'm more looking forward to the first use of deepseek's methods with google's Titan architectures.
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There's zero relationship between data being unencrypted and it being sent to chinese servers.
If you use a chinese service it's obvious that data is going to be sent to a chinese server and that the chinese server would be able to read it.
Unencrypted data transfer, it's a totally different thing. I would like to see if it's truly unencrypted or just not using apple proprietary encryption.
I luckily don't own any apple product, but I have deepseek app on my android device. If I'm bored later I'll try to intercept my own data to see if it's truly unencrypted. This is easy to test. If it's not true that newspaper is going to my "block list" asap.
surprised pikachu no one could see this coming from a few thousand miles away
To be honest, not using TLS nowadays is pretty surprising.
Yeah, it's actually easier to use TLS than not due to browser checks.
Volcengine is a platform of cloud services released by Bytedance in 2021 to help enterprises with digital transformation. Bytedance connection to China is well established. Sensitive data or data effective for fingerprinting and tracking are in bold.
So they use a Chinese CDN or hosting? Shocking stuff. Hilarious that a company so bad at basic security beat OpenAI.
I sincerely doubt they're bad at it.
If leaking data is intentional then there are better ways than doing it in the open. Doubly so if you supposedly are in cahoots with your hosting and Chinese government.
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Basically anything else you use here in the west sends all data to Amazon-controlled servers. But they make sure its encrypted so only them can see it. Nice.
Fucking duh
its nice of them not to encrypt it at least. it can get harvested along the way!
Does this actually matter so long as I just ask it questions I want answers to? I’m not feeding it any personal information. Sincere question. Enlighten me if so.
You wouldn't believe how little information can be personally identifying, especially when combined with other little pieces.
Also, knowing what's on the mind of western people, how they write, how they engage in conversations can be extremely valuable information.
Oh no. They will know that I don’t know how to implement cache invalidation in python. /s
Having an app installed gives it a lot of information
Unencrypted just means people on the way to that server can peek
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No shit?