this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2025
290 points (100.0% liked)

/0

1751 readers
11 users here now

Meta community. Discuss about this lemmy instance or lemmy in general.

Service Uptime view

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hey peeps, 2 weeks ago we opened applications to onboard new instance admins. We had a ton of great people applying and just as we were getting ready to decide, I got struck down by the influenza b and completely flattened to my bed. Welp.

Well, no matter, I'm back now and decided to announce the new peeps we're onboarding to the admin team. Initially I was planning to just add one new person, but we got so many strong applications that I felt bad choosing just one.

So without further ado, our new admins are:

Both seem to have a history which appears to align well with our values and will provide fresh perspectives and experiences to our admin team. Peeps, feel free to introduce yourselves with as many details, pronouns, and/or fanfare as you prefer.

That out of the way, this brings our admin team to 6 members, which starts getting to the point where's the sheer amount of admins and users makes it more likely that conflict arises, either between admins, or between admins and the userbase. In most other forums, this kind of thing typically causes a closing of the ranks and/or internal purges of dissent with the site owner taking the role of the BDFL. We've seen it already with lemmy instances and the regular drama which hits meta-comms.

So, since I'm the actual owner and I hate nothing more than being a BDFL, I want to attempt something novel in this space. You see, one core concept of anarchism is instant recalls. As in, the people that represent any group for a specific project, are not representatives in the same way as in parliamentary democracy. Instead, they are there to follow the exact mandate given to them, and if they are seen as going against it, the people below them have the right to immediately recall their mandate. None of this "minimum a couple of years" and popularity contest shit which allows corruption in.

I want to attempt something similar in our instance. I don't quite know how well it's going to work, but I'm willing to give it a try. The way it's going to work, the admin team is considered to have a mandate from the userbase to do admin shit. We don't want to be calling a vote for every ban and improvement after all. However as a counter-balance, any stakeholder gets the right to initiate recall vote against any admin, including myself. The vote will be run at a 75% threshold to remove, using the governance community.

However due to the impact of such votes, the hope is that perhaps we can sort things out before it gets to it, so the expectation is that people will first open a "sense check" thread in governance to talk about it before taking it to a vote. But if things have reached a head, then a recall vote is there to check our instance admin power.

The remaining admins of course are expected to replace any removed admins to ensure the good instance operation.

I did say that you can even recall myself if you so voted, however there's indeed some hard realities we can't get around. I still control the servers and the domain, and it's not possible to enforce their management based on such votes. So I will still ultimately be able to interfere, but I promise that even if I'm removed, I will only step in to ensure the instance recall functionality is respected. Ultimately this is an experiment that I want to attempt so I'm willing to roll with whichever way it goes.

Now there's one more thing of concern, which is about someone gaming the system. This is not all set up to be super rigorous. I'm hoping our relative obscurity and super-low stakes will prevent anyone attempting to game the system. Likewise, if foul play is suspected, I am still as a failsafe to recover.

You might be asking yourselves: Why do this? Why even mess with this sort of radicalism when the BDFL approach is tried and tested. The answer is because...well, power corrupts. Having power over people does something to one's brain, mates. So many times I've seen well meaning people turn to shit because they felt they were the only ones who knew best and could protect people from themselves. I don't want that. Every BDFL approach eventually creates internal cliques, mistrust, "good ole boy clubs" and such. I base my life in trying to shed as much hierarchical power from myself as possible and it hasn't led me astray, and if we want to change this shit world we're living in, we need to try things that don't repeat the same shitty structures. So while I can't do something perfect, I'm willing to do something flawed and see how far it takes us.

So yeah, welcome the new mods and tell us what you think.

PS: We also upgraded to Lemmy 0.19.9.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 75 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

Ahoy ye maties! I be one o' the new admins 'n am happy t' be on the crew! πŸ΄β€β˜ οΈ

A little about me: I've been pirating since I was a teenager and gravitated towards this instance because of it, I am a FOSS and privacy enthusiast, and since joining lemmy I have become ✨radicalized✨. I'm a bi cis woman and my pronouns are she/her ~~on the internet, nobody knows you're a woman~~. I have 2 senior dogs I love very much. I like anime, art, and video games. I also ate too much imposter chik'n and am now going to pass out.

Flying-spaghetti-monster-speed o7

[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Didn't know you were a nerd too. Even better! pirate captain laughing

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 weeks ago

I gotta get me a pirate dictionary...

Congratulations, too!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago

o7 Fly dangerously, commander!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 41 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Hey man! Really happy it's you :), congrats

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago

Thanks ❀️

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago

Happy cake day 🍰!

[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Welcome to the new admins !

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Thank you! And congratulations to @[email protected] too!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

You're welcome, time to initiate our plan

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Operation P13F3D, start! Go go go go!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 weeks ago

WE MUST LIBERATE DBZER0 FROM THE TYRANNY OF LEMMY!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

I'd love to run a piefed instance, as I can hack its code directly. Sadly it's just not as mature, One can't migrate instances, and there's not enough time in the world :(

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I agree on being mature part and it can be waited on in that regard. I disagree about migrating the instance to the platform and believe it would make more sense as a separate thing. As for time I'd be willing to help out with whatever I can (with my limited capabilities) if this was ever to happen. 2026 will be the #yearofpiefed for sure!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Ye if it matures I might host a new instance, but I have my hands full enough with one as is it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago

Ye, was telling the fxomt the same as to why I wasn't even advocating for piefed seriously outside jokes between us. I know that you have a dumb amount of things on your head with the current stuff.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago

piefed.dbzer0.com?? jk, jk... unless? 😳

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 weeks ago

Thanks for the hard work and exploring new way !

[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Congrats everyone! And I'm glad you're feeling better db0.

Quick question: what is BDFL in this context?

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 weeks ago

Benevolent Dictator For Life

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Kick ass! I liked both of them (and I've been noticing @[email protected] posting around, being a generally cool poster). I continue to feel extremely validated in choosing to join this instance: cool people, strong values, and wise leadership. Thanks for all y'all do!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 weeks ago

Thank you! 😊

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

The more I interact with this comm the more I understand the depth of what anarchism really means. I've been sour on my current reality for decades, and until joining this instance, my perception of anarchism has felt appropriate yet surface level. Not enough time to dig deeper due to life, the universe, and everything.

I love being here.

This new experiment will be exciting to watch unfold. While I hope it works as intended (which I think it will), I look forward to experiencing the struggle of growth for this comm.

Cheers, and congratulations to our new admins. db0 I hope this move lightens your workload

E: by comm I mean instance

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

I like the plan, but I would caution relying on obscurity as protection. This is the 8th largest Lemmy instance (by active users, per Fediverse Observer), and people have been much more petty before.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

It's not so much relying on the obscurity, rather than this being such a novel approach that I can't yet think of the countermeasures it would need to harden. So it's going to be a case where we have to learn by doing.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago

Not sure if it applies to recall votes, but my understanding was that only paying members (and people they vouch for) get a full vote, and the rest of us get rolled up into a "community temperature" kind of vote.

I suppose in theory that makes it easier for a well-funded adversary to engage a hostile take-over, but it also prevents casual trolls with no stake in the server and brigaders from voting poorly "for the lulz".

I'm not sure what democratic protections exist against a hostile major-minority take over (a 30%ish bloc who coordinate votes). Historically, it's kind of a huge issue for all organizations. I guess requiring 2/3rds or higher majority for recalls is one option, though it directly and inversely impacts the difficulty of recalling a hostile admin.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Ya know, I've been meaning to move off .world since their response to Luigi Mangione, and this post is just the nudge I needed to finally commit to a specific new instance. Really respect your approach here.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Best instance. What did they say about Luigi?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Bit heavy-handed on the moderation around the topic for my tastes. Too similar a stance to corporate media channels that remain forcibly anodyne no matter the significance of a topic. It wasn't egregious, to be clear, it was a measured response, but .world has positioned themselves as too consolidated and too "safe" for what I want from the Fediverse. You can probably find stuff on YePowerTrippinBastards or whatever the comm is but I'm on mobile and doing other stuff lol.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago

I do get the feeling .world is taking their moderation cues from reddit. Sorry .world, I didn't mean to be mean.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Try not to take over the fediverse

No promises :p

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Glad you responded. I felt bad making you Pinky, but db0 has to be Brain, and you got the short straw.

Plus Pinky is really smart. Everyone knows that.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I would like to initiate a recall vote to remove this crazy idea of allowing users to initiate recall votes. effective immediately. (/joke)

congrats and welcome new admins!

my name is dani (they/them) I'm new here but I've been on lemmy since apipocalypse, was finally time to shed my .world account and this instance has my favorite culture out of the ones I've come across.

good tidings to y'all, I hope not to cause you too many headaches :)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Welcome new admins!

this brings our admin team to 6 members

I think I've missed some memo, I can only recall db0 and other very cool one with longer name I can't remember right now. What's the full list of admins right now?

Edit: db0 is also very cool, in case someone misreads this lol

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

db0, unruffled (flatworm7591), randomlegend, d1tt0, fxomt, and yarrmatey!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

I love how much you're thinking about how the insurance should be led and that you don't want to be the special, allmighty admin. But I do think, that this system does allow for people with malicious intent to sabotage the whole project. Just think of some meta threads chucklefucks that want to kill of our instance for example.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago

I love this idea!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago

Mad respect for sticking to principles! I'm mostly a lurker but felt this post deserved a comment. Happy I chose this instance! I do share the concern mentioned once or twice in these comments that 'security by obscurity' is no security at all. But I don't have any brilliant ideas to help with that unfortunately. I guess just keep an eye on the types of accounts that are signing up over time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago

Welcome, keep this place clean!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 weeks ago

Thanks for all the work you put in this instance!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I see I made the right call when I left .world and came here

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

You might be asking yourselves: Why do this? Why even mess with this sort of radicalism when the BDFL approach is tried and tested. The answer is because…well, power corrupts. Having power over people does something to one’s brain, mates. So many times I’ve seen well meaning people turn to shit because they felt they were the only ones who knew best and could protect people from themselves. I don’t want that. Every BDFL approach eventually creates internal cliques, mistrust, β€œgood ole boy clubs” and such. I base my life in trying to shed as much hierarchical power from myself as possible and it hasn’t led me astray, and if we want to change this shit world we’re living in, we need to try things that don’t repeat the same shitty structures. So while I can’t do something perfect, I’m willing to do something flawed and see how far it takes us.

Good point. I've heard a similar story before:

I've been using Linux for some time, and I've read some "best practices", like, how to do things properly, or how to do things "the right way". And that is:

When you're dealing with a Linux machine, or a server, you should NOT run most commands as root. Instead, root should only be used when it is necessary (like when installing programs). Most things should be done within user accounts with restricted powers.

That is an analogy for society: "almighty" power should only be wielded when it is necessary; and laid down ("buried") when it is no longer necessary. People should remove as much power from themselves as possible while still being able to fulfill their function. I think, that is the basics that you're describing, @[email protected] .

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Congrats to the new admins!

As regards instant recall, I'm new here (but not new to lemmy and the broader fediverse) and don't feel I have much of a voice regarding how things are run. I also don't have much experience with the concepts of anarchism and the idea of instant recall is new to me, but I do have a lot of experience in governance for large organisations.

That said, I have some concerns.

Primarily, I can't see how including yourself can work in practice. Even if 70% of voters decide that your actions are contrary to the desires of the instance, you will be confident that your own actions are necessary and justified (otherwise you wouldn't have taken those actions). You've already acknowledged that you're a foul play failsafe. So I guess I'm saying, from your perspective any motion to recall your mandate is very likely to appear to be foul play.

Sadly, I'm conditioned to suggest having a robust code of conduct and a committee to refer breaches to, but I suspect that is not the way of anarchism.

Regardless, I'm very happy to support this instance and look forward to seeing where you take it.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago
[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is such a fantastic sign of your values aligning with ours. Thank you for undermining hierarchy.

load more comments
view more: next β€Ί