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U.S. Texts Barnard Employees and Asks if They Are Jewish (www.nytimes.com)
submitted 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
50 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

The texts, which faculty members said appeared to have gone to nearly all Barnard staff members, appear to be part of an aggressive new tactic by the Trump administration to collect reports of alleged antisemitism at Barnard, a women’s college affiliated with Columbia University that has come under heavy criticism for pro-Palestinian demonstrations on its campus.

https://archive.ph/cWiAw

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[–] [email protected] 178 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Problem is pro Palestinian people don't hate Jews (with exceptions), they hate Israeli government, a quasi-fascist apartheid state. There is a real problem with equating anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism. I don't have a problem with Saudi people, but their government is awful. I have no problem with Afghan people, but the Taliban are cocksuckers.

There's a real problem these days with governments not representing their people. The underclasses are going to have to break out the guillotines and straight up murder the rich in order to reset the cycle.

Man, I wrote this comment and I still feel like it took a couple of turns I wasn't expecting.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

If I could pick a nit or two, Jewish people internationally are not responsible for the actions of the Israeli government. Israeli citizens might be -- and while Netanyahu and Likud are extremely controversial in Israel, they do represent a significant and very vocal portion of the Israeli voting public. Worse, general Israeli sentiment towards Palestine and Palestinians is not good -- 60% of Israelis still support the war after 18 months of wholesale civilian slaughter in Gaza. 70% support the ongoing settlement and annexation of the West Bank. The positions of the major Israeli parties on Palestinian lives and rights differ from Netanyahu's "kill 'em all" approach mostly in degree rather than in kind.

To put the rotten cherry on the shit cake, Israel has one of the highest rates of dual citizenship in the world, with ~10% of Israelis holding two passports. Unlike the other countries you named, a significant fraction of Israelis could just leave if they no longer wanted to co-sign their government's genocide in Gaza. I am perfectly willing to hold the Israeli people responsible for the actions of their government, moreso than I am for the other countries you mentioned. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine was not forced on them against the popular will. They chose this, and continue to choose this, by a large majority.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yeah. I mean. It's the Middle East. There's no clear moral solution (though it sure as fuck isn't genocide). There is a huge grain of salt that needs to accompany any hot takes including mine.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

If the parties involved wanted a clear moral solution there's a very clear precedent in the form of South Africa's truth and reconciliation process. For that to happen, though, Israelis would have to be willing to acknowledge Palestinians' fundamental right to exist, and as I noted above they're currently opposed to that by a 2:1 ratio, and Palestinians do not have the power or tools to force the issue. The international community would have to drag Israel to the negotiation table kicking and screaming, and as long as they've got the US on their side that's not going to happen. Realistic political solutions seem remote right now, sure -- but if you're just talking about a moral one, it's shockingly simple.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

You are right that coming together and accepting one another's right to peacefully coexist is the moral thing to do, but as that is a practical impossibility I didn't/don't really credit it as a moral solution (failing the second word of the phrase, not the first).

But look, people way smarter than me have tried to crack this nut and failed. I guarantee it won't take a lot of effort to poke holes in anything I could say about this. I have my thoughts but always tempered by the understanding that I have more ignorance than knowledge about the realities of that situation.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 days ago

but the Taliban are cocksuckers

There's nothing wrong with that, but they are also boy-rapists.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

doesnt help that israel, AIPAC have many people(politicians and university donors) in the west calling criticism against israel= antisemitic. even when this all came out jon stewart was pretty hesitant around calling out israel.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

The mainstream media and main stream adjacent media were and still are pretty silent.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I get your point not equating Jews with the Israeli government, but it was tye Israeli population the one blocking the humanitarian aid trunks, the ones who keep voting for their apartheid state and who keep the army full of bodies.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 5 days ago

Well we shouldn't equate Jews to the Jewish Israeli population either.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 days ago

I mean that's fair, but the American people also voted for Trump and I don't really get a say in how we are mistreating immigrants, so I don't hold individual Jews accountable for their government unless they support advocate for that government and those tactics.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Somewhat semi-related question: Do you believe Trump being elected was as a result of a systemic failure (money in politics, propaganda/brainwashing, and such)?

Also, do you blame Americans in general for ICE becoming the Gestapo?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

I don't hate a lot of Americans but I sure can't stand our President and the rest of his fascist enablers

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

It becomes a problem when pro Palestinians are purely anti Israel. The destruction of Israel is routinely demanded, which would mean death and displacement for half the world’s Jews.

A truly pro Palestinian position would also be against the religious fanatics of Hamas and their disregard for the wellbeing of Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The destruction of Israel is routinely demanded, which would mean death and displacement for half the world’s Jews.

This is not true. Zero of the resistance groups, Hamas or otherwise, have ever had the goal of eradicating all Israelis. They are anti-colonialst resistance movements fighting for their humanity and sovereignty, not genocidal movements like Zionism. They exist due to Israel's unbelievably violent ethnic cleansing of local populations, which are justified and celebrated by Israelis because of the ethnosupremacy baked into Zionism.

The destruction of Israel means the end of Israel as a Settler Colonialist Ethnostate, of the Occupation, of the Apartheid, of the Genocide. It means the creation of a new State where Palestinians have equal rights to Israelis. Palestinians are not inherently primitive and antisemitic, which is the underlying sentiment baked into that idea equating the two. Zionism is an inherently Supremacist ideology and dehumanizes Palestinians in order to justify the Ethnic Cleansing and Settler Colonialism.

That entire argument is based on a false premise and is completely at odds with the history as I pointed out earlier. It ignores the reality of Partition, the nakba, sabra and shatila, the deliberate plans of ethnic cleansing and settlements, the creation of the PLO, Hamas, and other resistance groups as a reaction to the fascist violence of Zionism, the apartheid, and the details of the peace process including the Oslo Accords where Israel has wielded to continue ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism for decades.

Peace Process and Resolution

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Hamas routinely calls for killing all Israelis and Jews. It’s in their charter as well.

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/senior-member-of-gazas-islamist-rulers-encourages-killing-every-jew-possible/news-story/9190675857a2fbaafceed7ec2f90ef73

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=azEgBsU6Mi8

https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/hamas-official-calls-on-palestinians-abroad-to-kill-jews

Hamas are Islamist fanatics first and foremost. They don’t give a shit about the lives or wellbeing of Palestinians. Holy war for Islamic domination is their goal. Destruction of Israel and expulsion of Jews is just the first step in their ideological goal.

Hamas had a whole conference about what they would do after their victory against Israel.

15. In dealing with the Jewish settlers on Palestinian land, there must be a distinction in attitude towards [the following]: a fighter who must be killed; a [Jew] who is fleeing and can be left alone or be prosecuted for his crimes in the judicial arena; and a peaceful individual who gives himself up and can be [either] integrated or given time to leave.

Except they also want to enslave the useful Jews for a while.

16. Educated Jews and experts in the areas of medicine, engineering, technology, and civilian and military industry should be retained [in Palestine] for some time and should not be allowed to leave and take with them the knowledge and experience that they acquired while living in our land and enjoying its bounty, while we paid the price for all this in humiliation, poverty, sickness, deprivation, killing and arrests.

Hamas has nothing to do with liberation. Palestinians will never be free under Hamas rule.

https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-their-own-words-october-7th

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid. This is alsonin the context of Israel assassinating and imprisoning more moderate leadership of Palestinians, intentionally leaving only hardliners so they can justify to the western world their ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and genocide.

Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter

The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People nor all Israelis. Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990's, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Revised charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.

The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he's not Palestinian.

History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012

Fathi Hamad's comments were indeed antisemitic and an incitement to genocide. Which he also walked back and was condemned, not supported, by Palestinians and Hamas.

Hamas had a whole conference about what they would do after their victory against Israel.

Hama's is differentiating between Zionist settlers, who are a threat, and Jewish people who want to live in peace, who of course aren't a threat. 16 is certainly not acceptable. While the sentiment for wanting reparations for the decades of destruction by Zionism's settler colonialism, apartheid, and genocide is completely understandable, that's of course the wrong way to go about it.

Nor would Hamas have the final say for what to do once the apartheid is dismantled. They've already agreed to become part of a unitary government that includes all factions that represent Palestinians.

You're also using MEMRI, which is owned and run by Israeli ex-intelligence.

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), officially the Middle East Media and Research Institute, is an American non-profit press monitoring organization co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser in 1997.

Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature, aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes. It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute

[–] [email protected] 43 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Making a list of who is Jewish?

Dude... Really? I'm not sure if I should laugh, cry, or be terrorized inside.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Don't worry, things have flipped. They now see the jews as the master race, so they are just making a promotion list.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

I think I've heard about this before by some really angry dude from years ago. Oh, man, what was his name...?

[–] [email protected] 83 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Ah yes. Let's have the government collect a list of all the Jewish people. That generally ends well.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

They're following their role model's playbook to a t.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 4 days ago

Let's put an end to antisemitism by -- putting a star symbol highlighting the profile of every confirmed Jew or Israeli? Where have I heard this before...

[–] [email protected] 34 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I'm going to wager a wild guess: Jews and Israelis who oppose apartheid and genocide (IJV etc) and are facing harassment for it are not going to be considered as victims of harassment and discrimination. Only "good" Jews who are pro Israel will count, none of the "bad" ones. And nobody is going to even think of the word "antisemitism" when it comes to them being called JINOs.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Its pretty obvious, as mentioned in the article that they are just fishing for someone who has been "harmed" by pro Palestinian protests for their lawsuits. Fishing for standing is what this is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

Bad hombres

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago

Personally know a faculty member at Barnard who fled the Holocaust as a child. Sure he must just be delighted to witness such terrifying bullshit. Fuck these monsters.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

I don't like a lot of what this administration does but if they uncover and stop one or more malicious people from harming others, I'll take it. It doesn't mean I'll become a political supporter but I'm not going to refuse some good out of spite.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 5 days ago (2 children)

But... It's not good. One last time, loudly for the people in the back:

Being pro-Palestine or anti-genocide is not "antisemitism".

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

In my experience the people in the back have their fingers in their ears and are going "lalalalalala".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Threatening someone because they are Jewish is antisemitic, however.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

Only if they're being threatened because they're Jewish. For example, an armed robber who pays no mind to victim's ethnicity wouldn't be antisemitic just because they mugged a Jewish person.

And just because a person says they've been threatened doesn't mean they have been. For example, some people feel threatened (or pretend to be) if their political views are challenged.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Is that happening? No...? Then, (like the Trump administration) you're arguing in bad faith.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 days ago

if they uncover and stop one or more malicious people from harming others, I’ll take it

They want to punish pro-Palestinian demonstrators by falsely claiming they are antisemitic.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 days ago (2 children)

They're attacking free speech - people protesting against an actual literal genocide, and pretending it's to stop antisemitism (ignoring that the Palestinians are ALSO semites)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Antisemitism is defined by hatred of Jews, as coined by the German group Anti-Semites who wanted to have a fancier name than Jew-Haters.

It doesn't really matter for anything that Palestinians are akshually semites.

It's like arguing that racism is not a thing because technically human races do not exist outside pseudoscientific eugenics.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It does matter. If youre anti-genecide youre probably pro-jew

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

What does that even mean?

My comment argues that claiming antisemitism includes discrimination against anyone who is a semite has zero historical basis. It would also now exclude many Jews who are not semites yet were targeted by the Anti-Semites.

Of course genocide is bad. But anyone arguing Palestinians should be genocided because they are all "antisemites" will never be convinced by arguments. Therefore, there is no point in attempting to adjust the definition of antisemitism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Protests are fine but were there not threats and low-grade acts of aggression that targeted Jewish people at some of these campuses?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Then have law enforcement investigate it. Oh that's right, there is no investigation because it isn't happening.

It's fucking disgusting that you support a president harassing and threatening individual citizens over imaginary crimes so he can punish dissenters.

You're not going to like it when we use these powers against traitors like you in 4 years. We'll see how you feel when YOUR free speech is treated as a criminal act.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Things like this didn't happen?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

NYP is a right wing propoganda outlet. They lied about all kinds of shit to get Donny Dipshit elected. Find a better source. That's a Murdoch (owner of fox) rag

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

AP is neutral enough for you?

https://apnews.com/article/campus-protests-israel-palestine-columbia-f2984f21aa38a4f637982af7b98fed5e

In its report, the task force cited incidents where Jewish students had been threatened or shoved, or subjected to blatantly antisemitic symbols like swastikas.

But it also described a broader pattern of Jewish students feeling ostracized from classmates who had once been friends.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This is all very vague, and given that I've seen video of people carrying Israeli flags and harassing the anti genocide protests, those same people then turning around and claiming antisemitism against themselves can account for some of those reports.

I'm sure it's happened. But this doesn't even draw a link to those protests. We know the right wing is very anti Jewish given how often they march with those swastikas mentioned in the article.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I’m sure it’s happened.

And all I am saying is, if we can make it stop, I'll call that a win, no matter who is the one who stops it.

Stopping these types of evils doesn't mean we approve evil elsewhere. I am not sure why you don't understand this.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

That's not what this admin is doing though. They're taking a few random reports of something, pointing at people NOT doing that, and using that to attach their actual valid free speech against the horrible acts our government is fully supporting in another country.

This is a classic "for the children"-esque civil rights assault.

I'm not sure why YOU don't understand this.

They're not actually trying to solve the problem they're talking about. You're like "yes please, take my rights, hopefully it will help this niche situation" it won't. It was never meant to.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Oh, so that means it's okay to lie and claim that anybody protesting has the same motivation?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Are you making a straw-man or is this something you are witnessing?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Are you gaslighting or denying an allegation?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

You can look at this conversation chain. What claims have I made?