this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2023

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Scores killed in Israeli air strikes on families fleeing northern Gaza (www.middleeasteye.net)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Any reputable sources for this?

I wouldn't be surprised if this is true, but we should be careful not to let misinformation take over, and "middleeasteye" dot net does not scream credible to me.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 2 years ago

https://www.msnbc.com/katy-tur/watch/70-killed-after-convoys-of-evacuees-in-gaza-hit-by-israeli-strikes-195213381735

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago

Here's a verification of a video showing some of the aftermath of the attacks by The Washington Post. Since WaPo sometimes changes links on breaking stories, a copy is below.

A graphic video verified by The Washington Post showed the aftermath of a deadly strike along Gaza’s main highway Friday, part of a wave of Israeli attacks that killed dozens and injured more than 200 people fleeing northern Gaza, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza.

The video, recorded along Salah Al-Deen road, shows bodies,- including several young children- strewn along the road as black smoke rises from vehicles engulfed in flames. On the north-facing side of the road, bodies are laid out amid personal belongings, including a bicycle, on flatbed trailers attached to a truck.

The video was first geolocated by open-source researchers Chris Osieck and Gabòr Friesen and confirmed by The Post.

Late Thursday, Israel ordered the evacuation of northern Gaza’s 1.1 million residents within 24 hours, the United Nations said. On Friday, the Israeli military dropped leaflets over Gaza City telling residents to “evacuate your homes immediately and go to the south.”

Hamas’s surprise incursion on Oct. 7 killed at least 1,300 people in Israel, authorities said. Palestinian officials said the subsequent Israeli strikes have killed more than 1,799 people in Gaza.

The Israel Defense Forces did not have an immediate response.

[+] [email protected] -20 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It's very, very hard to believe.

What's Israel's strategy with something like that?

If their intent is to murder innocents, there's easier ways to do it with better deniability.

Will be interesting to see what other reporting emerges.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Israel wants to grow until there is no more Palestine and they have uncontested land posession

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

Ah, so it's just British apartheid all over again.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There was no Palestine in 1900, it was the Ottoman Empire.

They collapsed after a spanking in WW1.

BBC explains it pretty well:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54116567

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The word Palestine derives from Philistia, the name given by Greek writers to the land of the Philistines, who in the 12th century BCE occupied a small pocket of land on the southern coast, between modern Tel Aviv–Yafo and Gaza. The name was revived by the Romans in the 2nd century CE in “Syria Palaestina,” designating the southern portion of the province of Syria, and made its way thence into Arabic, where it has been used to describe the region at least since the early Islamic era.

https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

There's a difference between a historical description of the land, and a formal Nation.

Even Mandated Palestine wasn't Palestinian-run, it was British.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It feels like splitting hairs to comment that there was no Palestine pre 1900 because it had a different name. Especially when it was referred to as Palestine by Arabs for like 2000 years, it just wasn't officially a state.

Actually it sounds like a selective retelling of history designed to imply no one had any right to it or feelings of nationalism around it prior to WWII

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

IIRC Jews have called the land west of the river Jordan Israel for a long time, too, 3000 years or so?

So what do we do, get into a competition to see who can find the oldest historical documents? Or just accept that we have two (or more, really) groups of people that have historical and cultural import around the same region?

And more importantly, can we do that without the constant terrorism? I think we can all agree that terrorism is bad.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Or just accept that we have two (or more, really) groups of people that have historical and cultural import around the same region?

To be honest I don't care about anyones special fucking book. Tracing backwards the land belongs to:

The Palestinian peoples: 1940's-now

The Ottoman Empire: 1500's-1900's

The Christians: 11th century

?: 11c - 63bc

Romans: 63bc

Jewish peoples: 63bc-931bc

So by this whole "history culture" logic I have more of a right to Israel having been raised culturally Christian than the Jewish peoples.

But that's dumb. I'm gonna arbitrarily draw the line 100 years ago and say anyone after that can fuck off. If you have to go further back than great-great-great grandparents then you don't have a claim to it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

We can't even agree on what terrorism is. How can we agree it's bad? Israel using its forces to violently suppress a minority should be called terrorism, but it usually isn't because they're in power. It's also not called terrorism when the US bombs the fuck out of places.

Terrorism is only when those without power use violence. It's a bullshit term designed to incite emotion and not logical understanding.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's really not if you know anything

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 years ago

A sound rebuttal.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Most of the major news outlets have picked this up, but their source is just the Hamas government. This at least claims to have talked to someone. Hard to know what's real, but I'm not sure even what resources the major publications have in Gaza. Seems like a dangerous place to be.

Middle East Eye does have a mostly factual rating from Media Bias Fact Check, with the mostly coming from them not revealing their ownership rather than failing fact checking.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Global Media: Israel deserves restitution from these dead Palestinian families for the expense of the benevolent Israeli airstrike, as well as for the emotional trauma of the Israeli officials that called it. How could these dead Palestinian families be so cruel?

The reality according to UN data:

https://m.thewire.in/article/world/chart-6407-palestinians-and-308-israelis-killed-in-violence-in-last-15-years

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

That last bar is very much not up to date. It's going to look real bad once we get the numbers. You probably won't be able to see the rest of the chart because so many Palestinians will die.

[+] [email protected] -11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't know why these stats are getting trotted out so much.

They don't provide any indication of who is the aggressor, nor their intent.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

I think who is getting killed is leaps and bounds more important than any intent. Islam and Judaism, just like every other religion, is santy claws for adults, and the lowest of justifications to kill for. I care about who is more blood soaked. Because blood exists. Here. In the physical world.

Honestly, both peoples should be forcibly displaced and forced to rely on the kindness of other nations to learn humility, and the "holy" lands irradiated so no one can live there for a thousand years be they Christian, Muslim, Jew, Satanist, or fucking Jedi. People are dying today, yet-a fucking-gain over the literal equivalent of "Thanos is stronger! Nuhuh Darkseid is!" Sorry your fiction isn't a reasonable validation for shit, no matter how vintage.

Its a fucking desert too. I live in a desert. The shittiest kind of land humans can live on. They're killing each other over shitty land in the name of the cock size of their imaginary friends. So, their shared intent is acting on their respective cultural mass delusions. Both sides have killed so, so, so many real children at minimum using these delusions as validation, if not actually believing it. Why are these delusions still revered? We've split the atom, it's 2023. Fucking WuT.

If someone wants to pray to Pikachu at 2am standing on one foot except on thursdays because that's Charizard's day, who cares? You do you Pokemon Master, but stop making it anyone else's problem. Religious states cause these situations. They are incompatible with logic and reason, which gets people dead.

And yes, I actively disrespect your beliefs if those beliefs include a license to kill or limit the rights of anyone else to satisfy your beliefs.

Then again, I don't believe in an some round 2 afterlife, I think this fragile mind and body is all we get, so maybe I'm too biased in favor of the importance of not killing people who are alive. Maybe I should respect the beliefs of the people who think death is just like losing a life in a video game and you respawn somewhere else nbd. My bad.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Hamas terrorists hide amongst innocent Palestinian families. If they weren't cowards they would wear uniforms like the IDF and most (if not all) of the civilian casualties would be avoided... But Hamas doesn't want that anyway, because they use the civilian casualties to justify their violence.

That said, I agree with what you're saying. At some point you have to say "if you two can't play nice, you're both grounded".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The IDF is one of the strongest standing military forces in the world.

Hamas is at best a loosely organized guerilla fighting force, and that is being generous.

Let me put it to you another way: Do you think the Continental Army were cowards or terrorists because they fought the Revolutionary War by employing ambushes and other guerilla warfare tactics including intentionally not identifying themselves as enemy combatants?

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If I poke a bear and then it chases me home and eats my family while I'm hiding in the basement, it's my fault.

Only instead of poking the bear I'm murdering its cubs.

It doesn't matter how much stronger the bear is than me. If anything, I SHOULDN'T POKE THE BEAR.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

What an incredibly disingenuous, dishonest, and privileged analogy.

It also happens to make no fucking sense unless you are legitimately saying that Israel is akin to a wild predator acting on nothing but instinct with absolutely no moral imperatives or understanding of its actions in which case then you're also as stupid as you are dishonest.

Secondarily, you fail to state in your example that what really happened is the bear locked you and your family in the basement of your generational family home for 75 years. It killed a bunch of your neighbors, and then decided to build a pool with your money that you could see from the basement windows. The bear then invited all of its friends to live in your house while you drank from the toilet and ate rotten scraps that were barely enough to keep you alive.

When you finally worked up the courage to try to escape the basement, and take your house back the bear then killed half of your family. Then some of your neighbors, who managed to survive the bears previous attack, attempted to break you out of the basement. So, the bear killed all of them too. Finally you decided your best option was to let the bear kill you as long as you grievously maimed the bear in the process.

Once you finally lashed out at the bear, and maimed it. The bear then kept you alive so it could round up every single person you had ever met, murdered them right in front of you before finally ripping you limb from limb before shitting down the neck of your mangled corpse.

^ That bear is an accurate representation of Israel.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 2 years ago

The point is, these stats are not evidence of genocide.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 2 years ago

No one could have seen this coming...

[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 years ago

The hypocrisy from Israel is unbelievable, shame on U.S. and Europe for helping this genocidal regime.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Scores of people, mainly women and children, have been killed in multiple Israeli air strikes on the main road connecting north and south Gaza, as Palestinians carried out an Israeli order to flee their homes.

According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, at least 70 people have been killed in three separate air strikes on the road, with the latest killing at least 40.

The Israeli army said in a statement on Friday that civilians must leave Gaza City in the north, and that they would not be allowed to return "until we say so" and until "a statement is issued allowing this".

However, locals have reported a number of attacks on the Salah al-Din Road since then. Survivors, speaking to local media, implored others not to make the journey for fear of being targeted by the Israelis.

"Do not leave," a distraught survivor of the attacks told local media.

"They bombed the convoy. They bombed it on Salah al-Din Road. They bombed the ambulances."

Another survivor said the attacks were a "direct targeting of women and children".

"I was in the truck. There were about 200 people. 90 percent were women and children. We took the main road that the entire world knew we were taking. My entire family were with me. Out of nowhere, they dropped a bomb. Everything was black and I lost conscience for 10 mins," they told local media.

"When I woke up I saw a mother lying with her baby, whose brain was right next to him. I heard the ambulances then they bombed again. I took cover and after a few minutes tried to check the damage, then they bombed again."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

Yeah, this is definitely how you defeat "terrorists" and not just make more of them.

(I know, making more is their intent. Bibi wants to manufacture hatred on both sides. Zionism needs to die, then maybe something constructive can happen.)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

When does the “24 hours” warning end?