this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
1136 points (100.0% liked)

Lemmy Shitpost

30669 readers
3225 users here now

Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.

Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!


Rules:

1. Be Respectful


Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.

Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.

...


2. No Illegal Content


Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.

That means:

-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals

-No CSA content or Revenge Porn

-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)

...


3. No Spam


Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.

-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.

-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.

-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers

-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.

...


4. No Porn/ExplicitContent


-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.

-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.

...


5. No Enciting Harassment,Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts


-Do not Brigade other Communities

-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.

-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.

-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.

...


6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.


-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.

-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.

...

If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.


Also check out:

Partnered Communities:

1.Memes

2.Lemmy Review

3.Mildly Infuriating

4.Lemmy Be Wholesome

5.No Stupid Questions

6.You Should Know

7.Comedy Heaven

8.Credible Defense

9.Ten Forward

10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)


Reach out to

All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 100 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (19 children)

Just wait until you look into French numbers.

How different languages say 97:

🇬🇧: 90+7 (ok, there is some jank in English numbers - 13-19 are in line with the Germanic pronunciation, i.e. pronounced "right to left", as a weird hold-over from the more Germanic Old English)

🇪🇸: 90+7

🇩🇪: 7+90

🇫🇷: 4x20+10+7

And if you think that's bad, the Danes actually make the French look sane...

🇩🇰: 7+(-½+5)x20

Even Danes generally don't really know why their numbers are like that, they just remember and go along with it.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You know everytime your mention French number, there is always belgian or Swiss who will tell you :

🇧🇪🇨🇭: 90+7

☝️🤓

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

what the actual fuck is wrong with you, denmark?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While learning Danish I figured out that's just the arcane incantation for the number. It's language juju, and you just have to know that it be like it do. Yes, it's syv og halvfems, but the reason behind it doesn't matter anymore. The rest of the double digit numbers are a mess as well; 30 is tredive (three tens in old norse) but starting with 50 it's this weird score (20) and half-to-score system.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)
[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 year ago (5 children)

"Je voudrais un baguette" I once asked in a parisian boulangerie. I don't think anyone has looked at me with the same level of disgust before as the older lady selling the breads.

"Voilà, une baguette.", the "une" flying through me like an icicle.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"Stupid fucking foreigner thinking my bread has a dick..."

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I remember standing in line for crepes in Le Havre, I just had my first year of French in school and I was practicing how to order in my head, nervously repeating "un crepe avec sucre", and killed myself over not remembering the gender of crepe. So it's finally my turn in line and I order nervously (I am 13 years old) and they reply with "pancake with sugar, no problem" and I'm just like 😭

Somehow people not even giving you a chance to practice your language skills is awful

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Damn French, une crêpe and a pancake are not the same thing!

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Baguettes are distinctly penis shaped, so the French are just wrong about that.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Me speaking to a French guy last week -

"We've just been the the musée de l'automobile in Mulhouse"

"Sorry, where?"

"Mulhouse"

"Where?"

"Mulhouse"

"Aaaaaah I see! It's pronounced [pronounces Mulhouse *exactly the same FUCKING way I just pronounced it]

😂 Happens very regularly

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Just because your ears can't hear a difference doesn't mean that there is none. I deal with this a lot when Japanese ask me for help and can't differentiate between certain sounds

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (7 children)

No offense intended since I'm fully incapable of pronouncing tons of English words properly (fuck "squirrel" specifically), but as a Frenchman who has lived near Mulhouse for a few years and interacted with a lot of foreign students, what you said probably wasn't close to being the exact same as that guy

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Tfw the washing machine is gender fluid

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I believe women sometimes use them to aid in the release of gender fluid.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can use gender powder too

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Female, and I am sure there hides a boomer joke here

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (6 children)

A washing machine is obviously female because doing laundry is a thing for women.

And now I will sit back and watch how many people get mad at me because they don't understand sarcasm.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And now I will sit back and watch how many people get mad at me because they don't understand sarcasm.

Really getting worked up over that imaginary person you created huh? Lol

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

No. It's feminine because you put dirty things in it.

EDIT: I'm going to get lynched by the hyper vigilant with you. We're in this together now.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (21 children)

Enter German and Gendering: You can not say Programmer to address all Programmers in the room. You have to call them Programmerin und Programmer or Programmer:in or Programmende. And yes, most of these words aren't even German but if you don't use them you are a Grammar Nazi.

And btw, the fact that we address females with "die" does not mean we want them dead, thank you and have a good day.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a little bit worse than that in fact. "Programmiererinnen und Programmierer" or "Programmierer:innen" or "Programmierende". And if you get it wrong you are not a grammar nazi but more of a regular nazi.

/s just in case

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (20 replies)
[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Polish speaker here. We not only have gendered nouns but also verbs and adjectives.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Spanish speaker here. For as chaotic and wild as English is, I've always appreciated that it has no gendered nouns. Why are chairs female? Makes no sense

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Dick in French is, you guessed it, female.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (15 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

While gendered nouns are stupid, I at least appreciate Italian because you can just learn the word and get its gender from the end part of the word. In German, however, it's completely random and you have to learn the gender with the word.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I don't know what you're on about. It's "die Waschmaschine" (washing machine, female), "das Waschmittel" (laundry detergent, neutral) and "der Trockner" (dryer, male).

Pretty self explanatory /s

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Disclaimer: this is terrible advice if you are trying to actually learn the proper grammar, don’t follow it.

That being said, you can get by in everyday situations perfectly fine using "De" for anything, especially if you have a foreign accent people will forgive you.

De junge, de Mädchen, de Baby, de Tisch, de Stuhl, de Feuerzeuggas-Nachfüllkartusche. People will understand.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's so true. Or just guess. Like, for real, no one cares. Besides your Goethe Institute examiner. Das Tisch, die Mädchen, der Banane. Doesn't matter. My father has awful, awful German, despite living here for 35ish years, and his whole job is communicating with people and he made a huge career despite having no clue of grammar and buying sweet red Erdbeben in the supermarket.

I also adore foreigners from different countries speaking in completely broken German to one another and somehow being able to figure out what the other one was saying and having a blast. Admittedly, with the rise of English, this has become much rarer. But it just shows you that language is so much more than just grammar and vocabulary.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Due to the increased acceptance of non-conforming identities, it's become more prevalent to either ask for pronouns, tell them to a person you meet, or have them somewhere visible in things like gameshows.

That's quite as silly to me as this whole "what gender is this washing machine" nonsense is to English-speaking people.

Here in Finland, we don't have gendered language. Even with third person pronouns, we usually default to "it" instead of "him/her/they". Except for pets. They always get the proper pronoun "hän". It's just respectful.

So yeah, just like the English wonder why they have to learn different words for something needlessly gendered in France, I too, as a Finn, wonder why I have to learn different words for something needlessly gendered in English.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

What exactly does gender achieve in a language? Is English missing out on any nuance? Is it literally thinking about nouns as male or female, or is it just a weird name for the concept? Who decides gender when a new noun is made? What about borrowed words from other languages? Do you sound stupid if you speak French without using it, or are you just a language hipster?

Language, dude...

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'm not an expert. But I believe it is something to do with information redundancy.

If you mishear a word but surrounding words must match gender and number, you may reconstruct the misheard word.

As a native spanish speaker, I don't think of the actual sexuality of objects, it's just a characteristic of the word that should match other words in the sentence. For example the word screen (pantalla) is femenine, and the word monitor (monitor) is masculine. So when I see my monitor I don't think of an actual female or male object. But the nouns should match adjectives gender, so if someone says "broken monitor" (monitor roto) or "broken screen" (pantalla rota) I have this kind of redundancy if I misheard a word.

But I'm not an expert of linguistics. Don't quote me.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

This sounds right. I think it’s just a hint for listeners for what the noun might be, and it happens to align to the male/female genders.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Speaking as a gendered language user (Italian) it is sometimes weird.

For example, car is feminine but our name for an off-road vehicle is masculine, as is the word for truck. Since you have to apply the gender of the noun to verbs, articles and adjectives, which one do you use when talking about your SUV? Feminine because it's a car or masculine because it's an offroader?

For borrowed words there's usually a consensus on gender that forms over time. Sometimes a borrowed word inherits its gender from the translation of that word that fell out of use. One example of this could be the word computer. An equivalent term exists in Italian (calcolatore) which fell out of use but gave it a definite gender, masculine.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

What exactly does gender achieve in a language? Is English missing out on any nuance?

Sort of. Grammatical gender and the interplay with grammatical case (the "role" of a noun in a sentence) allows some extra meaning to be packed in. For example, German has 3 genders and 4 cases leading to 12 different contexts for nouns to be in. Many of those have their own conjugation patterns, and separate words for the articles "a/the".
That can, theoretically, allow meaning of the type "whose what did what to whom" to be obvious or pieced together in a sentence, whereas translating it into English you might need to spell it out, lose it, or rely on context.

In practice, a lot of that sort of information is often redundant or clear from context anyway, and only matters if you're being clever or succinct. My German is shit, so I will not try to provide examples.

It's also worth pointing out that it's a naturally occurring feature, likely arisen by accident.

Is it literally thinking about nouns as male or female, or is it just a weird name for the concept?

It is mostly just a weird name. Some of it makes sense along (social) gender lines, much of it makes no sense at all. This thread is full of good examples of counterintuitive noun genders in all kinds of languages.

Who decides gender when a new noun is made? What about borrowed words from other languages?

The speakers of the language, collectively, usually with some disagreement, trial and error. Borrowing depends: a gendered noun borrowed into a non-gendered language would just slip in there. In the reverse case, people would just arrive at some gender for it arbitrarily or based on similar words, what gender any "parts" of the term might be if translated, or whatever other method. There's no correct answer.

Do you sound stupid if you speak French without using it, or are you just a language hipster?

Quite likely. There's no "without it" in gendered languages, it is a more or less fundamental part of the noun and the language, like how certain nouns and verbs are just different in English. Dropping random grammar and syntax from English would just be "doing it wrong", ranging from cute foreign accent quirks to Ralph Wiggum's cave-dwelling ancestor.

Of course, fucking up is unavoidable when learning languages, and most people will give you a lot of leeway due to being foreign. Maybe not everywhere in France, though...

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

intentionally misreading as wholesome - the idea is to subvert the concept of gender.

"You'll never be a real woman!"

"Neither will the chair I'm sitting in but you keep calling it 'her' so maybe stfu."

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Germany has three genders lmao

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Of course! Hitler proved all right wing Germans are pussies with dicks.

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Non-neutral nouns have always struck me as odd. They provide no info gain whatsoever outside of actually providing a gender if you're referring to a person or animal (for example, in Spanish, gato -> male cat, gata -> female cat). And in those situations, a short sentence can provide instant clarification if needed in a non-gendered language like English.

It's a language feature built to be helpful in one use case, whilst simultaneously being worse in about a bazillion others. It's a very odd choice.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

English is incredibly easy. My mother tongue is Russian and I'm learning German, both have genders... which are quite often different. That makes things even harder :D

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's a she, because that's a woman job. Same goes for dish washer !

Also, there are a few words that even french (most of them) would have the gender wrong...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Sorry to disappoint, a dish washer is "un lave-vaisselle", which is masculine. A car however is "une voiture", maybe there's a joke in there about how manly men love their car more than their gf.

load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Spanish enters the room: words have gender, but there are special cases where the definite article switches gender.

"El hacha roja/Las hachas rojas", "El agua fría/Las aguas frías"

Also, some words may have both genders:

"El computador/La computadora"

load more comments
view more: next ›