this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (24 children)

I crack up at all the people on Lemmy insisting that this isn't pirating or about pirating. Yes it is. I pirate too, don't bullshit me guys. This isn't about Nintendo being an evil company, cause they keep their games exclusive, just like Microsoft does with PC games and nobody bitches. This isn't about Nintendo being selfish, it's about people who want to copy switch games, mod them, share them, and act as if it's a thing the copyright holder should be happy about lol

Again I pirate, so let's be honest, this whole thing is about ways to easily pirate and backup switch games, not the integrity of gaming.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ummm.... If you own the game, making backups is perfectly legal. This isn't piracy, this is hacking. I agree that most movie and game downloading IS PIRACY. This is not. It's piracy if someone rips the files and distributes it. If they rip it for themselves, it's not.

So yeah, it actually is a murky area here. You'd be going after everyone under the assumption of illegal activity vs actually targeting those commiting piracy.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (9 children)

The point is that this is not going to stop with someone backing up their games. Come on now let's be honest. The internet is full of game ROMS that are "for backup only" again, come the fuck on. I'm not against pirating, but to say this isn't it is just silly lol

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Then it should be Nintendo's problem to come up with a business model that doesn't infringe upon their customers' property rights, not society's problem to give up everybody's rights just to enable Nintendo's DRM-based business model!

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's kind of condescending to assume everyone does the same thing you do. Even if it's a majority.

Or are you assuming that no one backs up media for the sake of backing it up? Cause that's... pretty nearsighted.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would say less than 1% of gamers backup their games

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Based on what evidence? Your emotions?

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And? I'd say less than 1% pirate. I can throw in random unfounded metrics too. Still doesn't change the point. Just because you don't doesn't mean someone else won't. Which again isn't even the point of the article.

The point is someone could backup their game and sell it. The buyer being unaware it would ban their console.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Then you punish the actual criminals, not everyone.

There are plenty of us who prefer the steam deck over the switch. You can pull the encryption keys from your own console and the roms from your own games and play them there. There are numerous tutorials to do so.

People use knives to stab people. Should we ban all knives?

You're being hyperbolic and narrow-minded.

Backing up a game is legal. End of story. There's plenty of legal precedent there already. So you're literally arguing that the law is not the law because of your emotional feelings.

You want to change that? Change the law. Stop being a jackass on social here tho spouting bad takes when you just don't agree.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

People use knives to stab people. Should we ban all knives?

Actually in plenty countries, plenty types of knives are not legal to carry because their primary purpose (of the type) is in attacking people, which is never a valid reason to have it as a result.

Much like how with the US exception, most industrialized nations don't allow free ownership of most guns.

So if anything, that's a bad argument to make as there's a lot of precedent suggesting banning such dumping devices entirely might be warranted. I wouldn't support that, but the argument you try to use as a defense exactly supports a ban.
Mind you, the ban would be on buying/owning/importing such a device, not in the actual dumping. As in, you are legally allowed to dump your games, only you cannot acquire the device to do so as it has been shown to be primarily meant to be used for illegal purposes (usually this would mean there are privosion so that for scientific/research purposes you can acquire them).

An example would be the R4 import/purchase ban in a few countries.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago

I support things being hackable, dumpable, flashable, whatever. I also support piracy. But those two aren't as interlinked as you want them to be.

Hacking because it's ownership. Do what you want with the things that you own. Piracy because fuck 'em. That's what happens when you make everything digital - it becomes much, much easier to acquire for free.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

come on guys, I do X because of Y, everyone else must do it for the same reason, and if they claim otherwise they're definitely lying.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The majority of people pirate, but insofar as there is a single person who wants to do literally anything else with their hacked system, then it isn't exclusively about pirating, and the narrative to condemn the entire practice of hacking as being solely about pirating is nothing more than another corporation trying to make it harder for people to modify their own property as they see fit.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (12 children)

I think buddy is asking for honesty in the discussion. If your goal is piracy, just say so, don't hide behind that one person who "wants to do literally anything else".

You're right, generally speaking, but most of us don't fit into that category.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (3 children)

All the popular switch games have already been dumped & shared online. The cart that lets you download and play those came out MONTHS ago.

THIS cart is so you can download and backup your OWN Switch games, something I want just so I don't lose my save data. Thanks for loudly assuring everyone that you know fuck-all about any of this though!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Isn’t all your saved data stored in the device and backed up to the cloud? What games store saved data in the carts?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Gotta pay for cloud saves and trust Nintendo to keep them as long as I might want them, so ... no.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If it was about pirating, you wouldn’t need the dumper, you could just download the already dumped game online

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It’s also about how apparently games run better from a rom using an emulator on a switch rather than through the native software of the switch itself. It’s crazy.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

That's likely due to the Switch throttling itself a fair bit in handheld mode, to avoid overheating and spending too much battery power.

Running an emulator on Linux likely uncaps the performance.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is the wrong crowd for that, mate. I’ve gone through this rodeo on Lemmy too many times and you’re just going to get dishonest people pretending that what they’re doing isn’t stealing. It’ll be everything from “preservation of games” to “it’s just like renting from a library” and all the extremes of dishonesty.

No one here’s going to be honest about it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're being just as dishonest as the people you accuse in two different ways: there are people already in the replies to this comment admitting to the same things, as well as making unverified claims that "they're actually pirating, they just won't admit it"

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Some people just want to mod a game they love and play it again. There's more than one reason to use these tools.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am mixed on what you're saying.

As everyone is saying, it doesn't matter if the primary purpose of this is piracy, because this enables legal behavior through the same process as the piracy. You cannot say that this is illegal because it is not piracy until you take the output of this and do something else with it.

But also it sucks that we have to discuss these things with false pretense to avoid Youtube content bans and stuff like that.

But that is the reality of the world we live in, and Nintendo DOES suck and IS an evil company when it comes to consumers rights.

For the record, I do not pirate anything presently. At a certain point in my life I decided that I could go without things or buy them. But I don't judge for people making the opposite choice.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like devices like this aren't really under a false pretense though. Most people who would pirate games like this probably wouldn't buy a third party device so they can copy a friend's cartridge so they can emulate it, they'd more likely just download it and skip the middle man.

The only real way I see it being used primarily for piracy is in areas where Internet activity is heavily monitored/restricted, or broadband isn't available/accessible. Otherwise a 1 month subscription to a VPN and a few gigabyte of Internet usage is far cheaper and easier to a pirate.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Didn't bother reading the whole thing huh, about how this can effect people that legally buy used games?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I agree. it's always hidden under "backup" but reality is piracy. I pirate too.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'll join you in the downvotes and say I one hundred percent agree with you here.

People will go on and on about legitimate issues but downvote tooth and nail when you correctly day this was developed and sold primary for piracy.

And let's face it, this is built and sold for mainly piracy with the very few who are using it for legitimate uses like preservation.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Wow you are biased. Piracy is a service problem. Therefore platforms with more service issues become targets for more advanced and rampant piracy. Nintendo basically deserved it. Not an honest people's problem that it takes going that far to make the platform act as user friendly as they expected it to by default in the first place.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You'll burn for this here.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 165 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Nintendo Switch cartridge based games have a file that's unique to each individual cartridge. The dumper and accompanying flash cart make use of that file. If Nintendo detects two people playing while connected to the internet with the "same" cartridge, there's a high chance of them banning both consoles. So any used game anyone buys after this point runs the risk that someone dumped it, maybe an old owner who resold, maybe someone who bought and returned it, etc, which means even a legitimate user who hasn't even heard of the flash cart could get banned. There's also the potential issue of people using the tech in the flash cart once people figure out how to use those chips to sell bootlegged reproduction cartridges that have the same issue

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nintendo Switch cartridge based games have a file that’s unique to each individual cartridge. The dumper and accompanying flash cart make use of that file. If Nintendo detects two people playing while connected to the internet with the “same” cartridge, there’s a high chance of them banning both consoles. So any used game anyone buys after this point runs the risk that someone dumped it, maybe an old owner who resold, maybe someone who bought and returned it, etc, which means even a legitimate user who hasn’t even heard of the flash cart could get banned. There’s also the potential issue of people using the tech in the flash cart once people figure out how to use those chips to sell bootlegged reproduction cartridges that have the same issue

Oh wow, so they've poisoned the used market for Switch games. That's disappointing.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

Was technically possible to dump the unique cert with a modded Switch prior to this so even used games bought before could technically be impacted, but there was no real reason to do so since modded Switches and emulators would work just fine without it. Since it's required to use the flash cart this dumper is a companion to the risk goes up dramatically

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Mmh… I suspect doing this is not legal in Europe as second hand have enforced laws.

Other laws like this (I suspect second hand Steam game licence) have been voted to protect customers from such behavior (in the mindset that customer don’t have to pay for company for having bad protection system).

We will see how Nintendo will react.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Nintendo knows the PR hit for penalizing innocent customers would be pretty bad.

If a card ID is used by only two people I would expect it to be ignored, or if a device ID is only associated with one dupe card I would expect that to be ignored.

It's the devices that use multiple dupe cards or the card IDs that are used by thousands of people that will get banned.

It will be interesting to see where they draw the line but its unlikely that they want too many false positives.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

That would be the way one would expect Nintendo to react. but then again, it's Nintendo, so who knows.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This problem did also exist on the 3DS but with the difference that you need a modded 3DS to copy the game. We can do nothing other than wait for Nintendo to respond to the first ban that happens because of identical certs.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

This guy makes great content. This vid made me subscribe.

I didn't even think about the risk of duplicate certificates and Nintendo's adverse reaction to it. Quite concerning.

I buy almost all games used. Moving forward, I think I'll have to buy new or via discounted digital download code. MiG Switch (Russian owned) probably didn't even think or care about that impact to the market.

But the idea of playing my own carts on PC via the adapter is quite appealing. I don't want to give this company any money but would love to play my own cartridges with improved performance.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Just a heads up, please remember to follow all the rules. You can disagree with each other, but no personal attacks or any hate speech.

Thanks!

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