this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 108 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

A third party has literally no chance to win in our system, and nobody gives a single fuck about the miniscule amount of votes they do get - you're not moving any metrics, or sending any messages, or taking any stands. All you're doing is helping the worse option win.

So, if you truly hate Palestinians, then by all means vote Stein. If you want to see Ukraine taken over, then please vote Stein. If you want to see our country start murdering every version of queer people, then you really should vote Stein. That's all you're going to get for it.

Whether you like to see the truth or not, a vote for a third party is still a vote for genocide.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 5 months ago (1 children)

And abstaining a vote is... still a vote for genocide. People need to get over this desire to make believe that voting makes them complicit in something and instead realize that it's a cold and rational duty. Vote for the best outcome possible. What you do the remaining 364 days of the year will decide your complicity.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

So much of this dialogue appears to boil down to "America is a fascist country and everyone in it supports fascist policies no matter what they say or do".

Vote Republican: You're for genocide. Vote Dem: You're for genocide. Third Party: Genocide. Write-In: Genocide. Abstain: Genocide. Protest Outside Your Polling Booth: Genocide.

What you do the remaining 364 days of the year will decide your complicity.

Fateful last words of Thomas Matthew Crooks

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago (2 children)

"Wait, I can support genocide while pretending I'm not a Nazi??"
- Diet Racists

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Who in your scenario is supporting genocide exactly?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago

Low-key Nazis who vote third party just so they can later claim they didn't vote for Trump? Idk, I hadn't really thought that far into it. I mean, the guy down the road from me took down his swastika when he put up his "I stand with Israel" sign, but now his yard is covered in 50000 Trump signs, so I'm guessing he's not voting third party...

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (3 children)

miniscule amount of votes they do get - you're not moving any metrics

If that's true then why do you care? It's a miniscule amount that's not moving anything.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 months ago (50 children)

Let's build some towers out of blocks and see whose is biggest!

The Dem tower is 48 blocks tall. The GOP Tower is 49 blocks tall. The 3rd party tower is 3 blocks tall. That 3 block tower isn't enough to win, but if they stacked onto the Dem tower, that's the difference between 4 years of status quo and 4 years of fascism.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

Huh sounds like the people who have 3 blocks have a lot of influence. Considering the stakes shouldn't the ones with the big towers be trying to appease the ones with three blocks?

I mean this doesn't sound insignificant at all. I thought they were "not moving any metrics"?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago

Huh sounds like the people who have 3 blocks have a lot of influence. Considering the stakes shouldn’t the ones with the big towers be trying to appease the ones with three blocks?

By appeasing the 3 blocks, you've now lost 10 blocks from your own tower. Congratulations!

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sounds more like the people with three blocks know the consequences of a Trump victory and are using their vote as ransom to make demands over a single issue that will get far worse if Trump wins.

So in essence. The people with three blocks are entitled and ignorant and quite possibly purposefully helping Trump win.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago

Sure, let's go down this line of reasoning. You appease the 3 blockers, and lose 10 blocks in the process. Now the Dem tower is 41 and the GOP tower is 59. Objectively a bad trade. What incentive does that provide?

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Some states/districts have come down to a few hundred or a few thousand votes. I don't agree with the above comment that it doesn't matter. Third parties are spoilers

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's just naive in my opinion. They say they care so much about Palestine, but refuse to sit down, grow up, and face our current political reality. I would love to have ranked voting, or even just a valid third party choice, but that is not going to happen in the next 3 weeks. And we are still reeling from the repercussions of the last Trump Term. They'll continue to stack government and courts with the same backwards thinkers to make progress, if any, even harder. They'll continue to make life harder and more dangerous for not even just minorities, but just anyone who's not able to buy their way out of it.

But it doesn't matter! They're both the same! There is no way Trump could be worse. Because while Palestinians watch Israel's interpretation of "just end it" with out a cease fire, they'll die with the knowledge that, somewhere, in another country, a woman is bleeding out in the parking lot because some people wanted to make a point. Oh, boy, won't that be great? /s

[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 months ago (1 children)

in the first 3.5 years of the question cycle

We are literally always in an election cycle this country is so fucked up

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

That's how cycles work, lol.

We're always in every cycle.

It's in the root of the word cycle. Greek word kuklos and the Latin word cyclus, both of which mean "circle".

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago

I love me a good piece of pedantry. Technically correct, the best kind of correct.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Most of far leftists you see here with their accusations of “dOiNg a gEnOciDe” were absent from any discussions about Palestine prior to October. And I’d wager that a large portion of them couldn’t have pointed to Palestine on a map until around then either. I’d even guess that many of them still couldn’t.

I’ll digress.

At this point- you should probably know by now that there is no changing their minds. They know what they’re doing- we know what they’re doing. And there’s no point in debating with them because they’re just going to drag things out and repeatedly accuse you of shit that isn’t true in order to not have to answer anyone asking them to make sense of the rhetoric they repeatedly post here..

Call out their nonsense for what it is and move on. Save yourselves the time.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Most of far leftists you see here with their accusations of “dOiNg a gEnOciDe” were absent from any discussions about Palestine prior to October

This is one of the funnier things I've seen a Democrat make up to smear anyone to their left.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The whole meme is bullshit. Libdems screamed at leftists to shut up throughout 2016. First it was to forget about Bernie and vote for the historically unpopular warmonger whose “turn” it was. After she lost to a nearly equally unpopular opponent, they screamed that it was time to resist, not actually consider the mistakes they made.

Just like there is no actually acceptable method to protest under neoliberalism, there is no actually acceptable time to push for third parties and alternate voting systems.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (4 children)

If Hillary made it in 2016 we’d have a much better supreme court and Roe v Wade would still be a thing but you sure showed all the libdems.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Hillary Clinton would have almost certainly won if her entire platform wasn't based around the idea that she didn't have to do anything good because, hey, what do you want to do, vote for Trump?

Blame her, because she is the one who fucked it up.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

This is one of the funnier things I've seen a Democrat make up to smear anyone to their left.

And this is one of the funnier rebuttals to being called out if only because there’s no denial of it.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Leftists are some of the only people who paid attention or cared about Palestine before last year.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago (16 children)

I'll keep saying it: This is not a Mexican standoff you can win because the Dems have an out: the center voter. If you want the Dems to stop going center, they have to win all 3 houses consistently. They've had all 3 for only 4 of the last 24 years.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Also that one time, if I recall correctly, had a bunch of Dems who were "pro-life" and vaguely Dem to get votes but not really progressive at all.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Not sure how to tell you this, but the right wing has, does, and will target ANY Democratic (or 3rd party) candidate that poses a realistic chance of beating them in the presidential election. The right wing doesn't want or know how to govern, they just want to control, so they attack those that are qualified to govern.

Russia and China support and amplify unserious 3rd party candidates like Stein and RFK Jr with the support of the Republicans, because without splitting the left's votes, the Republicans would be a powerless minority

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The right wing doesn’t want or know how to govern, they just want to control

Thank goodness liberals don't have this problem.

Big broom sweeping Eric Adams, Lori Lightfoot, Kristen Sinema, and Henry Cuellar under the rug

Russia and China

American politicians would rather fight two more world wars than go to therapy.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Here goes:

PSL is running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to israel.

Here’s your chance to not be like the ops meme.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

Under no circumstances should anyone with a functioning brain consider this as a good idea. It’s a sacrificed vote. A worthless ceremonial attempt to “protest” by casting a vote for someone that has a barely above zero chance to win.

It’s nothing more that pageantry and it’s irresponsible.

And there is probably no one that would in good faith, ask you vote for this person that isn’t trying to siphon votes from Harris.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Votes aren’t sacrificed, they’re cast and counted. The count is public so you know they aren’t tossed into a pit after their hearts are carved out with an obsidian knife or burned on a stake or whatever.

I think the description of pageantry probably isn’t one to invoke when we’re staring down the barrel of three weeks of constant detailed media coverage focused on every detail.

I also think it’s pretty vile to describe voting for a party opposed to genocide as irresponsible. Irresponsible to whomst exactly?

A vote isn’t ceremonial or protest (and if it were protest it would be a lot cooler!).

I just want to take a minute to examine the protest vote rhetoric for a second. People only deploy it to imply that a vote they name protest is not valuable, not effective, immature and other pejoratives.

Why would anyone listen to the input of a person who looked at the history of the last twenty years or even the last century and not just thought “yeah, that’s immature, ineffective and worthless” but then tried to convince the people who are voting third party, overwhelmingly young people, of it?

I am literally asking anyone who would vote for either of the two major parties or a third party to consider the party for socialism and liberation in good faith. I don’t care who it siphons votes from. If a party thinks they need third party voters then they can adopt third party platforms.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don’t care who it siphons votes from.

This obvious admission of entitlement says everything about how you have nothing to lose in this election, and therefore have no one’s best interest in mind aside from your own.

That is of course if we are to even assume that you aren’t here to support a spoiler and disrupt an election.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

You’re creating a strawman of me to argue against.

It’s pretty clearly in bad faith. Why not actually respond to anything else I said instead of quoting one short sentence outside of any context and building a bunch of assumptions around it?

It’s laughable to suggest that my vote against genocide has no one’s best interest in mind but my own.

Your claim that I’m speaking from a place of privilege and entitlement also falls pretty flat when it’s the high and privileged place of entitlement that’s defined by rejecting genocide.

Why not try a different line of reasoning.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (18 children)

Just say you want Trump to win. No need to hide it.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (18 children)

Gloria La Riva, PSL’s 2020 presidential candidate, got a total of 85,623 nationally.

Do you think Claudia de la Cruz will beat that?

Does she have a path to presidency?

Harris or Trump will win and to think anyone else has a chance at this stage of the game is delusional.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

Bernie is the political equivalent of Rambo: Alone, behind enemy lines, with no support.

He had to do guerrilla politics most of his career and has a lot to teach.

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