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You used to have to prove adultery in order to get a divorce in New York state.
Family story time! My great-grandparents wanted to get divorced and were in New York, so my grandfather lay in a bed next to his mother-in-law under the covers and my grandmother took a photo to present to the courts. My great-grandmother apparently never even took off her coat.
That's hilarious and somehow wholesome that everyone pitched in to get the separation
Woot to all the people that were horny but it was the legal system stopping them from cheating on their spouse.
Great now make it so if you cheat you lose the ability to get alimony.
And an open relationship is different then cheating.
Honestly, I think it’s high time we ditch old marriage laws in favor of much more individualized marriage contracts that are settled in civil court if they’re dissolved. Modern marriages are much more complex than traditional ones and our antiquated laws don’t deal with them well. We’d have to update laws/policies about hospital visiting, medical decisions, inheritance, etc, as well, but I think it would be worth it.
I was in favor of individual contracts for most of my life.
But there's an issue - with individual contracts there's a greater degree of uncertainty every time someone goes to court over them.
It's the same as with individual contracts in other areas. Say, labor.
Power balance matters.
So - ideally yes, but in our real world with our real legal and enforcement systems - we may not be able to. Same as with labor, again.
Yes absolutely this.
Cheating should not be a crime you go to jail for.
But it should have consequences.
I think a good way to go is a law that unless there is a prenup that specifically deals with cheating, and unless it was an agreed to open relationship or there was otherwise permission to cheat, a cheater is ineligible for alimony and must be considered morally suspect for the question of child custody.
that's the opposite of the point of these laws. the entire point of this and no fault divorce is that the state shouldn't dictate relationships. how are you going to adjudicate cheating anyway?
How?
If person a is shown to have been cheating then person a loses any claim to alimony.
Pretty simple.
Person A in divorce court “judge I want alimony”
Person B in divorce court “your honor Person A was cheating here’s the proof”
Judge “ no alimony will be awarded from Person B to Person A”
Why should anyone be allowed to get alimony after cheating? That’s just insult to injury.
Your spouse cheats you walk in on it and now you want a divorce. Added bonus you have to pay money to the cheater for life???
How does that make sense?
It should literally be law that the alimony goes away at that point.
Yeah indentured servitude as punishment for being victim of a cheater. That’s just pure injustice and the state shouldn’t be enforcing that.
Fuck me finally. It was a the only thing keeping me a chronic virgin.
It kinda should be IMO. If you can't not be faithful, don't fucking get married and be a cheating piece of shit.
It shouldn't be enforced by the state
Do you not see the issues with having the state enforce that?
You won't get a lot of argument that cheating is a shitty thing to do but the government doesn't need to be involved in peoples relationships.
yeah great idea. criminalise everything. had your freedom to the state. the american dream
If you're worried about the American dream I have shit loads of horrible news for you since you haven't been paying attention for the last 40 fucking years apparently.
Being able to be a cheating shitbag with no consequences should be the least of your concerns at this point.
I don't think anyone is saying that it's ok and there should be no consequences, just that it's not a matter for the law. The law isn't really about what's moral and immoral. There are plenty of immoral things that are legal and moral things that are illegal. I think it's wrong to cut in line but I don't think we should be locking people up for it. I also think in many cases stealing is morally justifiable but I don't necessarily think we should make stealing legal.
Pointing to other bad decisions to justify your bad decisions is a bad look no matter what, friend.
I was married, we had an open relationship from the start. How is that criminal?
That's not cheating, that's an open marriage. They're two different things.
It would have been criminal under the law. I cheated, she cheated. It was the law, whatever agreement she and I had was immaterial.
That's just how the system is. My wife and I are into bdsm. Legally speaking I'm guilty of spousal abuse because she legally can't consent.
So we just ignore the law. But if we ever divorced acrimoniously she could rake me over the fucking coals.
Why she can't consent? Is she underage wtf?
It must be a weird edge case. You can certainly consent to being beaten, humiliated, degraded, etc.
One thing you cannot consent to where I live is to be touched sexually while you are asleep. The moment you become unconscious (as though that were a thing with a clear, bright line definition) any sexual consent you have given is deemed to have been revoked. This seems rather paternalistic to me since you can consent to have your leg chopped off while you sleep, but whatever. There have been cases where police and crown prosecutors went after charges because someone talked about letting their husband have sex with them while they slept; ie they had moral consent but not legal consent, and so were charged with sex crimes over the protest of their willing partner.
A woman can't consent to being hit in my state. Or at least that was the common consensus when we were social about it.
I just looked it up and some random website says it's fine with consent so either the entire community was misinformed, something has changed, or that website was full of shit.
You don't have to be married to cheat. You are right, they are totally different things. Marriage is a legal status that has nothing to do with sex. Asexual people can get married. Two straight men can get married. People in open relationships can get married.
You want it to be illegal to cheat. That's bonkers. How would that even work? Do you really want the state investigating your intimate relationships to make sure they are legal??
Why should only sexual intercourse get that kind of protection? If my partner and I swear that we will share our feelings with each other, and I find out that they have feelings they've been keeping from me but sharing with someone else, that is cheating. But as long as there isn't a dick and a vagina involved, it's okay? Like where do you draw your lines, and why do you want those lines enforced by men with guns?
I’ve been cheated on and divorced. My ex was seeing a divorce lawyer lol. That was some fun times with depositions and constant harassment since they had 24/7 legal access.
Even with all that said, I don’t think cheating should ever be criminalized. Just gotta be careful who you marry or date. I still have never learned my lesson lol.
Every couple that wants the legal rights grants by marriage must be monogamous whether they want to or not, because it gives you feelings that you are unwilling to process when confronted by committed but nonmonogamous relationships?
If a married couple want to fuck around with other people, why should that be a crime?
If they're in an open marriage, fine, whatever, but cheating destroys lives and should have consequences.
It does have consequences. You mean you want cheaters to be punished. That's a different thing.
So you agree that it should have been repealed, then.
The law makes no distinction between the two. Open marriage? More like 5 years in a federal penitentiary waiting to happen because a cop coveted your wife. It's your word against their's unless you want the state to issue permits for sex or something.
What you're looking for is civil court, which is entirely different from criminal court and works differently as well. And that already exists for cheating on your spouse.
I'm just waiting on incoming news about Hochul cheating on her husband.
I mean, fair, but doesn't really seem like something worth the effort one direction or the other, doubt that law was being enforced much.
We should reduce as much as possible laws that make something illegal but aren't enforced. It creates uncertainty about your position and allows authorities to threaten citizens for unrelated reasons.
Nah, fuck that. If a law isn't enforced it shouldn't be a law. Things being illegal because it's "too much effort" to make it legal is bullshit.