A community for discussing events around the World
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
My grandad who fought in WW2 used to say to me "You don't speak to Nazis, you shoot Nazis".
To translate this into modern world: AfD should be banned and its politicians should go to prison. The same with all far right across Europe.
We allowed nazis take power once, we must not make the same mistake again.
We allowed nazis take power once, we must not make the same mistake again.
In case you missed it, they are in power already, just not in Germany (yet).
Unfortunately Congress is controlled by Zionist fascists.
Yes, yes it is.
We allowed nazis take power once, we must not make the same mistake again.
That ship sailed in November
In Europe. This is about Europe. America is not the center of the world.
My bad, shouldn't comment with migraines
20%?! What the fuck is wrong with people? I know that there are problems in the world, big problems, but you don't get rid of those by just saying "Ausländer raus!"
People are disgruntled enough to the point that they just want to burn it all down. And these far right radicals/Nazis are often promising that (even though they have zero plans of carrying through and will instead just further enrich themselves at the cost of everything else). This is what happens when you let extreme inequality continue unchecked for decades.
Keep in mind, that the past decade centrist and right wing media did everything to give the AfD maximum attention and for the past 3 years every party from left of center to right bent over backwards to push themselves to the right and far right. the Greens and Social Democrats passed a law to make deportations easier just a week after investigative journalists uncovered a meeting by the AfD, other Fascists and the CDU to discuss plans for large scale deportations. sitting chancellor Scholz had declared "We need to deport in grand style" a few months earlier.
Now for the AfD ban innitiation a relevant faction of the Green party want to block it on the basis of "wanting more time, a parliamentary inquiry and not to risk giving the AfD a carte blanche if the ban case fails." I think it is more because they are worried that some of their right and far right policies could come under scrutiny too.
The reality is that large parts of German politics have been infiltrated by and wanted to move to the right very hard. They just waited for a pretext to do so, where they don't end up being the far right all of a sudden.
I'm just mentioning the Green party as an example, because they used to be a progressive party, left of the social democrats and right of the Left party, and i am dissapointed the most in them. But the CDU is using the same election slogans as the AfD currently and the Bavarian abomination CSU now has posters that look the same to posters of the NPD, which is the skinheads with baseball bats style Nazi-party.
For decades, the elite has been hoarding more and more wealth, while the average worker faces inflation, stagnating wages, and crumbling public services - this is true for most developed countries.
Same as with Trump in 2016, a large number of German people are (rightfully) dissatisfied, and (mistakenly) think that a radical candidate will solve their problems, and “stick it” to the elite and current ruling parties.
The answer is the same everywhere - the elite should stop hoarding the wealth that is created by the workers, and the government should use that money to invest into the common needs of the people (e.g. good education, healthcare and public infrastructure). This is the only way that works, but billionaires would rather see fascists on the government that burn countries down, as that doesn’t endanger neoliberal capitalism,
Wealth distribution (wages, cost of living, housing) is one thing.
The demographic changes caused by low birth rates and immigration are not to be underestimated. They have a huge impact on identity, outlook towards the future, and societal cohesion.
A majority of older people, many without children, who only care about their own pensions and benefits are not conducive to societal change, growth, and adaptation. Wealth distribution plays a role here too of course. The younger generations realize they won’t be able to live the lifestyle of their parents is a huge blow to overall morale. Disintegration of institutions (church, unions) only accelerate the alienation and destruction of social cohesion. Families are also much weaker. They are smaller and their members are more likely to live further apart. Divorce adds further instability and disconnection. That all contributes to increased mental health issues and loneliness.
Society is in crisis in many ways. People promising radical change (back to an imaginary glorious past) become more and more attractive.
But it's such a simple and easy solution to our problems! /s
Critics warn that a ban could portray the AfD as martyrs.
So? Martyr the shit out of them.
In good ol' days, people had to die first to become martyrs.
Hmm, worth thinking about.
Martyrdom is massively overrated in Western discourse - usually a crackdown just works. Probably exactly because it's a great excuse not to do scary but necessary things, which is something we've grown unused to.
BANNT DIE SCHEIẞE DOCH ENDLICH WEG
WEG IN DIE SCHATTENWELT
upvote for use of capital ß
In a recent speech, Alice weidel idolized her grandfather's generation. Her grandfather was a member of the Nazi party.
AfD goes to length to imply nazism but won't outright say it.
It's just Musk without cool gadgets
Seriously, fuck them
Yup. Rising Nazism doesn't need to be the exact same guys again. That's just lazy.
Please include musk in this bad and make that ban Europe wide
bittebittebittebitte...
I suspect banning them will make them more powerful than they are. What we really need to do with these movements is to ridicule them at every chance possible, do not only condemn them but actively mock them and treat them with the highest degree of disdain. Make it clear that a shitstain is more worthy of consideration than them. We used to do that with the KKK in the US and it worked wonders.
No it won't. Banning them will defund them AND it bans any follow-up parties they would otherwise create.
Banning them will defund them AND it bans any follow-up parties they would otherwise create.
And it will finally end their constant appearance on television, where they can advertise Nazi crap.
But the afd voters won't disappear. The problem is not the party, but the fact that millions vote for it. People have to be convinced not to vote for it.
No the problem with the highest priority is the nazi party clawing for power.
One step after another. Right now the #1 priority is stopping the fucking facists from getting into power.
I agree, the voters wouldn't disappear but it would take time for them to find a new party to vote for. The time difference might be worth it.
Believe it or not, they have always been there. The difference between the olden days and now is one of acceptance: In the olden days, most of these people voted conservative (CDU, CSU, FDP). They didn't vote for straight-up fascist parties, because doing so was considered inacceptable by a huge part of the populace. What the AfD did was to shift the conversation further and further to the right, keep saying the unsayable and make it more and more "normal". At the same time, the CDU under Merkel divorced itself from the extreme right by declaring themselves a party of the center, after silently accepting the fact they were the party of choice for a lot of people with fascist ideals for decades.
What we as a society have to do is to say "STOP - this is not acceptable!", and banishing the AfD is exactly that. I am not sure where the voters of the AfD will go instead, probably the BSW or some other shit party, but that is still a better option than a strong fascist party that keeps getting attention and keeps shifting the conversation to the right until we wake up and live in nazi germany once more.
I suspect banning them will make them more powerful than they are.
No. It takes away a huge chunk of their finances and their structures. It will not make them more powerful. This is not Star Wars, and even there, I never understood how Kenobi was supposed to become more powerful by being killed.
What we really need to do with these movements is to ridicule them at every chance possible
People tried that in the US, see how well that worked out?
You have to do it with care. If it comes over as believing that your non-bigoted, non-idiotic culture is superior to the fascists' culture of bigotry and idiocy, they'll dig in and rail against snobbish "elites" (that is, people who can string a sentence together and recognize a lie when they hear one). In the USA this sentiment strengthened the fascists and led to Trump winning the presidency twice.
(I know I'm not exactly following my own advice but I'm feeling impatient with these people right now.)
Did I miss the part where the republican party was banned?
The person I was responding to suggested that ridiculing the AfD was preferable to banning it. In the USA people ridiculed but did not ban the Republican Party, and now it is stronger than ever. I was saying that this indicates you have to be careful how you ridicule them. If people feel you're on their side and making fun of idiot fascists, that's good. If people think you look like a snob and the fascists are the ones on their side, it backfires.
Got it. I thought the "being careful" part was about banning, not ridiculing :)
if violence doesn't work, then why state uses it?
Violence against movements have a history of galvanizing them. For evidence look at the OG Nazis.
Also a ban, imo, does not qualify as violence. Violence would be if the discussion was to purge them like the roaches they are, but that’s not what’s happening.
The OG Nazis never felt state repression. They would murder people and then judges set them free again because they were "obviously acting in the national interest". The whole judiciary back then was trained during monarchy and did not consider law passed by mere parliament, the mob, as valid, they basically saw the Nazi's autocracy as a downgraded version of having an emperor, but at least it wasn't, *shudder*, democrats.
Have you ever heard of the following?
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Ridicule is helpful, but not sufficient. The new right has established itself all over western democracies. They have built organizations, institutions, parties, companies, etc.
