A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
Our Goals
Then go live in China π€‘
Bro I just said I don't want diabetics to pay 300usd per month for insulin jfc
China which is... also capitalism, but instead of CEOs there's The Party
And there is only one Party. Either you're in, or you're in the way.
US is a stoneβs throw from these groups becoming one and the same.
How dare we want our country to be better and for our fellow citizens to not die in cartoonishly preventable ways? /s
Not to mention that those same people will post shit about βwhy are we helping foreigners when people at home are sufferingβ-sorry stop me if youβve heard this one ten-thousand times before.
"I'm just gonna hit the pause button right there, bud. The US government doesnt help people."
Big pharma got the patent mate... Respect the law, shitlord
Rheee
I have multiple times had the experience of explaining to non-Americans elements of our system, and they simply donβt believe me. They think Iβm making it up to fuck with them because itβs so atrocious that it couldnβt be real.
Kind of has a point that modern "communist" systems in practice seem identical to all the bad parts of Capitalism.
Phrase I picked up from Well There's Your Problem: centrally unplanned economy.
One company, Baxter, makes 95% of the saline IV solution for the US. Most of it comes from one factory in Marion, N.C. It has been hit by natural disasters before and caused shortages. One happened just this past few months.
Socialism: A system of government where the country's wealth is concentrated into a small, ruling class of billionaires, who use the media they own to keep the lower classes fighting with each other while they . . . the rich . . . run off with all the farking money.
Oh wait. that's capitalism. I don't know how I got those two systems confused.
Why does everyone think the only alternative to capitalism is communism?
I mean what do you propose, I mean I personaly do not want to regress farther to fudalism
Heavily regulated socialist democracy.
Provide basic needs, food, clothing, healthcare, childcare, and education. Hell even a phone and Internet access.
Emphasis on the basic.
Allow for those who do not wish to, or are unable to work to live with all basic needs covered. Those who wish to work are incentivized to do so, with access to luxuries. Better housing, better clothing, better technology. Allow a place for the market, but don't make people depend on the market.
No reason to work a job you hate, no reason to employ people you don't need. Everybody wins.
I mean, you're almost speaking of the exact system Marxists want to work towards, just with the caveat that Marxists think Markets are only useful tools in less-developed and less-critical industries temporarily, before public ownership and planning becomes more efficient, and that the spread in difference between "luxuries" decreases over time as productivity improves to account for that. The whole "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" bit that requires extremely developed industry to achieve.
Marxists aren't opposed to increased pay for more skilled or more intense labor, rather, such a system is a necessity until sufficient automation and industrialization allow for more goods and services to be free.
Have you read Marx, or Marxists?
I've read The Expanse lol. I was describing the system on Earth in that series.
The thing is, markets predate the written word. Some form of trading is literally one of the first things humans did. It could even be a prehuman invention. Eliminating markets is like trying to eliminate prostitution, or drugs.
Markets, much like life, uhh... Find a way.
Instead of turning up your nose, make them work for you, in a way you want. We don't want the markets to spread, unrestrained, like kudsu. We want Bonsai markets.
That's just Americans. They can only think of 2 options; this or that. Democrat or Republican. Capitalism or Communism. Good or evil. Simple binary choices.
There are countries in Europe which are ruled by a coalition of 3 or 4 political parties. Very few Americans would be comfortable with something so complicated.
I watched a video that had dr. Robotnik say how is going to take over the US Healthcare system and make it hell... then shadow keeps interjecting to tell him that his plans are actually a vast improvement over the system, and Robotnik is then left unsure what to think.
I literally had to tell people libertarianism fails harder and faster than communism was getting weird stares until I told them about the book "a libertarian walks into a bear"
I still look like a raging communist but idc
Can you point me to a real first world developed country not run by a dictator that doesn't have capitalism? I need a reference to see that the alternative is better. Genuinely asking.
No, because we live in a global society where if you don't participate in global trade (especially with the USA in the past couple hundred years), your country will fail.
The USA has played a massive part in making communist experiments fail, most notibly the USSR.
The closest thing that the western world has is the nordic countries' social democracy, which is still capitalist by nature. They only implemented it, though due to communism being literally right around the corner (USSR)
The USSR didn't fail because of the USA....the fuck is with you tankies.
I'm sure fighting a global proxy war for most of a century has absolutely nothing to do with the (state) failure of the USSR.
Now, excuse me, I have to go to the ER because of all the compounded brain damage it takes to both think that and say anyone that believes otherwise is a tankie.
I donβt think you can get to communism where thereβs a relatively small group in power tasked with dividing the means of production. That power will be abused like oligarchs do now.
Yeah, I agree with that. Mass centralization is bad regardless of the situation IMO. We need collaboration instead.
I'm personally a fan of Prof Wolff's idea to force all corporations to surrender ownership to their workers, converting them into worker-owned coops. This would largely mitigate the ability for extreme wealth concentration to happen to begin with, especially if combined with other wealth-limiting regulations.
At anything bigger than city scale, it's pretty much impossible to implement any "real" alternative without fuckloads of work - we're talking 10+ years. Making a commune on a farm with ~15-ish people is easy (lots of hard work, but doable, there are historical examples of success), but even that group has to participate with the capitalist mother state whenever they need to get stuff they can't produce themselves. If the commune grows too much, it becomes impossible to keep things running smoothly because, well, there's just too many people involved now.
not run by a dictator
The catch here is that in the west, we label anyone anti-capitalist a dictator. You can be the very definition of dictatorial, but if you align with western interests, you're just a "president" or a "leader" or something. But start nationalizing your oil industry and π¨ dictator! dictator! π¨
So yeah, within the bounds of the narrative that capitalism is the only way, you'll find that capitalism is the only way, unsurprisingly. But the fact that this narrative is baked into us from childhood doesn't necessarily mean that it's aligned with reality.
Would that be propaganda in favor of Communism, who's every real world iteration so far has led to corruption, tyranny, and human rights abuse on a scale that would put Capitalism's to shame? Gwon you're making us blush. Oh, you talking about aspirational Communism, but not actual real life experienced Communism, lol. Yes, that's what we need, fairy tales of the world to come, like Christianity.
Ah yes the only two possible political systems, Chinese style autocracy or American Style Oligarchy.
Clearly if it hasn't been implemented before and doesn't currently exist today, it's impossible to ever happen. We live at the end of history, you see.
We live at the end of history, you see.
You say that in jest, but human civilization is coming apart on easy paradise mode, and even then it took us about 200,000 years of wandering around in the dirt to even start trying, and in trying we're irrevocably destroying the place eyes wide open.
The idea that humanity will exist as more than scattered animals clinging to old hardened structures having destroyed our temperate climate for millions of years is laughable. The insurance industry is having a stroke about its continued survival after just a few of the teensiest little tastes of our good, irreversible work.
The long arm of recorded history is ending, by our own capitalist hands, for short term profit.
We're literally razing the forest so there will be no shade for future generations, only clinging to base survival on a hostile planet they probably won't even know their ancestors were directly responsible for.
on a scale that would put Capitalism's to shame
You say that like capitalism isn't ongoing massacres and abuse in various forms all day, every day. As if the t-shirt you're probably wearing wasn't made by someone who's exploited in Bangladesh so that minimum wage Americans can still afford to buy it without forgoing food because they're purposely underpaid by service industry corporations. As though you're not also talking about some sort of aspirational capitalism where the "free market" actually exists and doesn't inevitably lead to corruption and tyranny...
Meanwhile, the richest man in the world is about to secure control over US government agencies because he gave the most money to the current president.
How dare you? Those billion dollar corpos are doing you a favor by paying a "just good enough" wages to allow you to eat.
You say that like capitalism isnβt ongoing massacres and abuse in various forms all day, every day.
OOhh, but it's not capitalism' fault!! It's just stuff happening that's totally unrelated to capitalism!!! <- answer I got to a similar discussion back in ~2014. Either that or "a few bad apples" when complaining about shitty companies.
corruption, tyranny, and human rights abuse on a scale that would put Capitalism's to shame?
Funny how you're describing capitalism and trying to pretend you're not.
Source: Radio Free Asia told me so.
