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To be fair "centrist" in the USA is "extremely rightwing" everywhere else, the USA is super consumed by rightwing retoric
Thanks McCarthy and the red scare! You did a real long-lasting number on rhetoric here in the states.
I wonder how he/they would feel if they could see the right NOW...
I think you mean McCarthy's assistant, Roy Cohn.
When genocide and no genocide are both too extreme, maybe a little genocide? Or a genocide far away? Or maybe killing a group that doesn't qualify the definition of genocide?
Or maybe killing a group that doesn't qualify the definition of genocide?
yeah let's kill a group of people that is not a group of people
Just kill 50% at random. Perfectly balanced
I understood that reference.
Which niche, obscure, underappreciated work of art is that comment referring to?
Half Baked
In a strict reading, killing LGBTQ wouldn't be genocide because they aren't all related. On the other hand, they do form a (sub) culture. You can argue both ways but they technically don't tick all the boxes. So it's as bad but not jurisprudentially genocide so maybe a compromise we can convince our centrist friend of?
it depends how pedantic you are about the exact definition but I think (or hope) most people agree that would be genocide
Bullshit
I'm a centrist
The Israeli government and Hamas leadership should both be put in front of a wall and shot
Trump is a lying narcissistic sack of shit, just like Elmo Musk
None of that should be on any political side, those are obviously human choices
They forget that centrists don't mean being in the middle of each extreme. If one side is calling for genocide and the other is calling for the prosecution of those advocating for genocide, a centrist perspective isn't about endorsing a little bit of genocide or putting a few people in prison.
Instead, it involves investigating how we reached a situation where people are calling for genocide, apprehending the group that could actually commit genocide, and dismantling the institutions that made it possible for people to join that group. This process is resource-intensive and often anticlimactic.
You don't win by persecuting people, you win by making it difficult to commit crimes. It is a slow process that requires swift action.
The left's search for idealism is what doomed them in the 2024 election.
If one side is calling for genocide and the other is calling for the prosecution of those advocating for genocide, a centrist perspective isn't about endorsing a little bit of genocide or putting a few people in prison.
This is not the situation. Both the fascist Republican and the Democratic Party, that's supposed to be the opposition to Fascism, unconditionally supported arming a state that has not only been committing genocide for over 15 months, but has committed ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and settler colonialism for over 76 years.
Instead, it involves investigating how we reached a situation where people are calling for genocide, apprehending the group that could actually commit genocide, and dismantling the institutions that made it possible for people to join that group. This process is resource-intensive and often anticlimactic.
This is an incredibly far left position to the Democratic Party, which denounced the ICC arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant and the ICJ case against Israel. Nor is it anticlimactic when we know genocide is already underway because of how incredibly well documented it has been.
The left's search for idealism is what doomed them in the 2024 election.
Do you mean the Democratic Party here? Because what doomed them is ignoring the demands of their constituents. "The Left" in the US is entirely grassroots and had no effect on the policies of the Democratic Party during the election.
Driving 3 million people into a concentration camp and restricting food, water, and medicine is with the intention to ethnically cleanse them is bad, but have you considered that using violence to escape that concentration camp is also bad?
Oh my. An actual centrist and not a far-right nutjob claiming it to seem intellectually superior. What a sight for sore eyes
It's important to consider all points. It's also important to analyze them and throw out the ones that are wrong, whether they're incorrect or inhumane. Blindly accepting all opinions as equally valid is stupid.
God I hate the current political discourse. You have extremists vs extremists, and now both sides are vilifying everyone that doesn't blindly adhere to all their positions.
I’ve had people try to tell me that basic healthcare and corrections to income equality are “extremely progressive” viewpoints. I’m done with letting others’ definition of extremism into the conversation.
Being called an extremist is not really the thing I'm taking issue with. The right wing has been doing that for decades, screeching "communist!" at the most ridiculous things. And depending on which particular ideals you subscribe to, being such an "extremist" is probably a good thing.
The issue I have is that instead of calling out that shitty behavior, the left has started emulating and expanding on it. In addition to calling everyone "fascist", they've started attacking the entire concept of being a centrist (and I mean actual centrist here, not just right wingers arguing in bad faith). People aren't born believing in one socioeconomic system or another, it's learned. Generally, everyone is going to start off somewhere in the center, as they become politically aware. If the only voices they ever hear is two sides screeching names at eachother, you wind up with a disengaged and disinterested voting population, which will only help the fascists.
I agree with this actually. I think your other comments were worded too vaguely, allowing differences of interpretation to cause severe disagreement.
Found the enabler. ⬆️
Found the source of the problem.
No two humans are going to agree on every point. If you vilify everyone that differs from you in the slightest, you are a detriment to your own cause.
But of course, no one actually wants to fix everything. They want to just make snarky comments online to feel superior.
If you vilify everyone that differs from you in the slightest, you are a detriment to your own cause.
"In the slightest" being centrist code for "who counts as a human being" and "does bombing hospitals and starving children count as genocide"
Nobody is vilifying someone because they have different opinions on the importance of reading Shakespeare in high-school, or if they think, big centralised public libraries are a better option to lots of smaller public libraries.
This is just the quintessential enlightened centrist argument, reducing down serious issues about basic fundamental morals into just "disagreement"
Nobody is vilifying someone because they have different opinions on the importance of reading Shakespeare in high-school, or if they think, big centralised public libraries are a better option to lots of smaller public libraries.
No, but they are dumping people into that category in their mind, and then making all kinds of assumptions and conclusions about that person based off the one false assumption. And then because it's the internet, the name calling starts and all constructive conversation ends.
Just look at this thread. I started it with "the current American political discourse sucks" and no-one commenting was able to take that statement at face value. Everyone replied with assumptions on what my stance was on issues I didn't mention. It's that exact reflex that I have a problem with. Essentially, I agree with the message, but I disagree with the delivery method.
Whatever you say Herr Niemöller. Keep your false equivalences, ignore the US now has literal concentration camps, and calmly wait until they come for you.
I never made any equivalences, stated any of my political opinions, or said anything other the fact that the current US political discourse sucks.
And things are only going to get worse because people like you would rather make up shit to get offended by, instead of doing anything that might get the majority on your side.
Making things up? Have you read the news? People have been arrested by plainclothes thugs and deported with no due process. There was a picture earlier of the holding bunks of the victims of these extrajudiciary ICE raids next to literal concentration camps. They are being sent, irreversably, to work camps in other countries that are known to torture and kill their prisoners, especially foreigners. You are ignorant to the point of danger.
If thinking I am a human being with full and equal rights to every other human being and that anyone who disagrees can go fuck themselves makes me an extremist then that’s a reflection of the society I live in, not me.
And yeah, the people who ‘don’t agree with me on every point’ are the people trying to criminalize my existence. How many states is it illegal for you to piss in a public restroom? How many states are trying to criminalize your healthcare? Have you had the government confiscate or alter your passport? Did you even know this shit is happening?
There is no extremist left in the american political discourse. Theres hardly even any left at all. And yes you really are the villain if you dont want women and minority groups to be equal with cishet white men or for israel to stop genociding.
What positions of the two provided (being against facism, and protecting women) don't you "blindly" adhere to?
And there's the idiotic extrapolation I'm referring to. I'm talking about the discourse in general, not the specifics.
That's a way to say you don't want to say which specifics you are against because people will see your shitty morals
Which minor policies are you being vilified for supporting?
This is just more jibledek bunk. Typical jibblist prattling on about their things and giving not a single consideration to the obivous pliquist arguments against. And all this even after the main hedging of Two Whistlers!
Ridiculous.
Centrists are just lazy at this point. They’re basically “I thing treating people bad is bad, but I don’t want rules and taxes either, so I’ll settle for treating people-not-me badly if I don’t have more rules and taxes.”
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming (1919)
Just as bad or actually worse are the "Both Sides Bad" centrists.
yeah this really is what centrism looks like. although I gotta say, a lot of people are so reactive towards this line of thinking that they identify anyone questioning their beliefs as "centrists". no, not wanting russia to control the world does not make me a centrist. just like criticizing the democrats does not make me a centrist.
As a rationalist I think any idea should be evaluated for at least longer than it takes to react to a meme. Ideas should be accepted or rejected on their own merits or lack thereof, and not because you notice a similarity with something clearly heroic or terrible and you want to quickly decide which way to mentally swipe so you can scroll on to the next thing in your feed. People do too much of that kind of superficial thinking. [And I'm not defending any particular political point here, I'm talking about rationality vs superficiality.]
as a rationalist, i believe its important that we consider maybe Antactica is actually a great ice wall holding in the worlds oceans. i think we should at least evaluate that fact before making such superficial descisions.