this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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    [–] [email protected] 26 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    What scares me is that I’ve tried to hook multiple “geekier” teenagers on Linux, and they aren’t interested. Even the math-y ones don’t know the difference between an operating system and a browser. My main computer is Arch with xmonad and it disturbs and confuses them.

    We have a lost generation when it comes to computers. Lots of the little geeks that would have been playing around in the registry or learning powershell 15 years ago are so stuck in walled gardens that they don’t even know there’s a world outside of them.

    [–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

    that's because an emphasis was made to be productive on technology, not imaginative while they were kids.

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    [–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    I have no idea what CLI is. I just use Mint and don't put much thought in.

    [–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

    It's an abbreviation for Command Line Interface To Objects Residing In System. A lot of male programmers can't find it.

    [–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    I think it's the Linux equivalent of Windows Command Prompt.

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

    No, it's the general term, as opposed to GUI (graphical user interface). Linux Shell, Windows command prompt and Powershell are all CLI

    [–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

    Windows Command Prompt/Powershell is a CLI, Linux's is called Terminal

    Command Line Interface - an interface method to your computer using lines of text

    [–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

    Huh. Never realized that. I've only ever heard Linux users call it CLI, so I just assumed it was what most Linux users called the Terminal. And I assumed Terminal was the generic name since Mac also has a Terminal app.

    Also, side note: it's called Terminal on Windows now, too. Windows unified their Powershell and Command Prompt programs into a single app (on the surface, at least). You can open either Powershell or Command Prompt using tabs in the app.

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    [–] [email protected] 36 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    I can understand people not wanting to learn a ton of CLIs, I cannot understand people refusing to use any at all. They have the distinct advantage that you can copy + paste stuff, whereas in Windows you sometimes have to follow like a dozen steps to do whatever you want to do in a 2000s GUI.

    [–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

    I got blocked by someone here for the same idea that I thought was balanced: it is a useful tool, it makes it easy to share how to do something.

    That's it. Use it if you want, or don't, but it's not a negative thing. And I too don't advocating sitting up at night reading man pages or anything..

    [–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

    Dude, in a previous job I had a superior aggressively refuse to let me teach him how to do some extremely basic things on his computer (he'd just call me over to do it whenever he needed it done) and told me he did not know what an internet browser was (he used one everyday).

    Now, I did not understand his thought process, but he exists. There are 100% people who understand the basics but experience intense cognitive stress at the mere sight of a command line.

    [–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    I've used PowerShell in Windows for the past 15 years. Following dozens of steps in a GUI is not required.

    I also use Linux, with bash and Python for automation. I've also grown to love NixOS for its automation options.

    Both operating systems feature rich automation options. Both have ClickOps oriented interfaces for those that want it or are unwilling to learn to automate / use a CLI.

    Doing ClickOps is a choice and a mindset, not a requirement of Windows. Using a CLI in Linux is not a requirement depending on the distro or your use case.

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    [–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

    Grew up with ms-dos. Spent half my career in telnet and ssh consoles.

    When I just want to play Balatro at the end of a long day fuck any system that requires more than click click to get me in.

    That's why I'm switching to Linux when windows 10 is no longer supported because fuck win 11 and the amount of regedits it's gonna take to get that working.

    [–] [email protected] 42 points 3 days ago (37 children)

    A true mainstream Linux distro would need guidelines like this:

    • The user is never be expected to type a command into a terminal.
    • The user is never be expected to edit a configuration file.
    • There is a graphical UI for every possible action the user might want to (or have to) do.

    This especially includes:

    • Configuring audio devices
    • Installing graphics drivers
    • Updating the operating system
    • Managing applications and storage space
    • Connecting to networked storage
    • Adjusting kernel parameters (This is neccessary on certain hardware, yet, barely any distro has a graphical UI for it.)

    The only distro that comes close to this is Linux Mint, but not even Mint covers everything I just mentioned.

    If we want Linux to succeed, there needs to be at least one distro that confidently ships without a terminal.

    [–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    Windows doesn't even cover everything you just said. The number of times Windows 10 broke my Bluetooth devices and I had to much around in registry to remove the device profile just to try to repair the device, is part of the reason I switched to Linux in the first place.

    Yes, many distros need a little refining and smoothing for the general public, but only because people are so used to dealing with bullshit troubleshooting on Windows that they don't see it as bullshit anymore.

    [–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    That’s a low bar, but importantly they’re still correct that technically Windows looks like it can handle those things as far as a regular consumer can see. Windows is unholy trash, but it at least doesn’t tell people who can’t even navigate their basic file explorer that they are expected to use scary terminal commands they likely found on a forum or third-party website.

    Personally I think a little more tinkering spirit would do the whole world good, not just with computers, but reality is the way that it is for the moment(things can change, fingers crossed).

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    [–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago

    There can never be a distro that ships without a terminal. I will burn it with the fire of a thousand suns. Even Windows has a terminal

    [–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    You were absolutely right about everything up until your very last sentence.

    We need a distro that comes with GUIs for everything indeed, but shipping without a terminal would be both a bad idea and would cause the distro maintainer to go up in flames immediately.

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    [–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

    Seriously - Linux needs a standardized config schema spec. Something that programs should provide which an application can read and provide a frontend interface for the users to adjust config files.

    Could be something like:

    schema_version: 1.0
    application:
      name: Poo Analyzer
      icon_path: /etc/pooanalyzer/images/icon.png
      description: Analyzes photos of poo
    schema:
      - config_file:
          path: /etc/pooanalyzer/conf/poo.conf
          conf_type: ini
        configs:
          - field: poo_directory
            type: dir_path
            name: Poo Image Directory
            description: Directory of Poo Images
            icon_path: /etc/pooanalyzer/images/poo.png
          - field: poo_type
            type: list
            name: Poo Types
            description: Types of Poo to Analyze 
            values:
              - dog
              - cat
              - human
              - brown bear
            icon_path: /etc/pooanalyzer/images/animal.png
              ...
    

    Any distro could then create any frontend they'd like to manage this - the user could even install their own.

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    [–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    “I don’t want to learn/use the CLI” is equivalent to saying “I only want to use features that have a GUI”, which you can already do on any operating system (including Linux).

    [–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago

    No, it means not needing terminal to have a usable system or to fix it

    even Windows sometimes doesn't meet this

    [–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    What? No, it doesn't mean that.

    If you want audio, but will have to use CLI to fix the issue. You have a feature you want, but can't use because of CLI.

    Same with installing software or using advanced settings. If that is only accessible through CLI, it is a major flaw for any user.

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    [–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

    An at least superficial understanding of the cli is an essential part of using linux. If you don't ever want to use a cli, what are you doing pursuing linux? Do you just want a free version of windows? Go pirate windows.

    [–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    I pursue Linux because I want a FOSS OS and its privacy and security benefits, not because I want to tinker and learn the CLI.

    I mean, I do want to tinker and I have learned the CLI but it's not why I pursue Linux.

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    [–] [email protected] 16 points 2 days ago

    I believe Linux distros aimed at nontechnical users should strive to not need a user to ever use a terminal, but I also believe folks should be encouraged to try them anyways.

    [–] [email protected] 155 points 3 days ago (1 children)
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    [–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

    It's open source, they can just make their own distro.

    [–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

    And that attitude is why Linux is struggling to gain market cap imho.

    Yes they can, but maybe we need to embrace those who arent tech saavy?

    Saying if you dont like it, go do your own thing is not very welcoming.

    We should encourage people to create their own distribution, but maybe welcome people with open arms first, guide them to a flavour that works for them, and then encourage them to learn how to make it exactly what they want

    Edit: ~~Market capture~~ > market share

    [–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Market cap? Which stock symbol is it? 😉

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    [–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

    A meme is a great way to avoid their fury; Lynx doesn't show images.

    [–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    nah fuck that noise. thats what i use.

    its good to know it more deeply, but i want the practicality of a stable system that gets out of the way of my shitposting.

    if anything, easy stable distros are more worthy because it allows just anyone to ditch windows. instead of being a nerd's plaything, that is.

    [–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    I'll be honest, as a macos & Linux user, even macos, the (self proclaimed) Holy Grail of accessibility and user friendliness,required me to run a few commands to fix bugs (not in weird softwares, just stuff which stopped working through reboots in the OS itself).

    You can't expect to use a computer without CLI, or what you get is windows (and even then, you might get around the CLI but you gonna need to do some cursed regedit at the first attempt of slight customization, or bug).

    The only exception to this is phones, and for good reason; you hardly can do shit in phones anyway, and if it bugs all you can do is wait for the devs to fix it for you

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    [–] [email protected] 41 points 3 days ago (5 children)

    Eh. I'm mostly a power user, all day at work in terminals and keyboard shortcut galore.

    It doesn't prevent me from laying back and running a "filthy casual" kubuntu with little to no setup at all. At one point you reach the state where you just want to use your computer, not tinker with it all the time.

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