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1106

128 Democrats join House Republicans to block AOC, Al Green bid to impeach Trump (www.independent.co.uk)

submitted 20 hours ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

290 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Useless. Time for the Social Democrats to form their own party.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 hours ago (4 children)

I'm sure to get dumped on for saying this but ya'll need to chill out. President's generally have authority to carry out military strikes. I can't think of one in my lifetime that didn't bomb somebody without congressional approval beforehand. Declaring war is a different matter but all the differences and nuances and where exactly the lines are, is not something courts have ever really figured out.

This impeachment resolution specifically said he declared war and he should be impeached because it's Congress' job to declare war. That's the entirety of the complaint. It's short. And it's lazy. He didn't declare war. He certainly risked starting a war, but he didn't declare one. Democrats would have looked stupid for impeaching him for something he didn't actually do and it would have failed just on the language alone. It did fail. And it should have.

All this 'democrats are traitors' or 'they're supporting fascism' or 'stabbing us in the back' is crazy. They put forth a really bad impeachment resolution and it got shot down. You should be mad at AOC and Green for putting up a horrible impeachment resolution. It probably looked better last week when it looked like a real war might happen, but I don't see anything impeachable here. If there is something, it's deep and nuanced, it's something that no one has ever agreed on the interpretation of, it's something that Congress has let Presidents get away with for decades.

We're not getting rid of this asshole by persuading the public that he disobeyed some highly nuanced technicality that nobody even agrees on. Shit, I'm getting sleepy just thinking about listening to a congressional hearing on it.

[–] TheKMAP 3 points 32 minutes ago

Doing a drone strike to kill specific people not officially part of a government is vastly different than destroying infrastructure that is still controlled by a country's government.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 hour ago

I don't get it. What's there to chill out about? Is it fine to bomb another country just because war wasn't officially declared?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Funny how when America got bombed it was perceived as a clear declaration of war... Those double standards my guy

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

If you're talking about American public opinion having double standards, ok. If you're talking about me, you're putting words in my mouth.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Correct me if I'm reading your post wrong, but you stated that people should chill out about this declaration of war because he didn't actually declare a war, he just casually dropped some bombs. I understand that to mean that people should accept the irrationality because somehow the US doesn't have a system in place to police itself. Curious how that would play out if other countries did the same. Oh no we didn't declare war, it was this fat idiot Hirohito going rogue again, oopsie. Time for peace now, thank you for your attention to this matter.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Curious how that would play out if other countries did the same. Oh no we didn't declare war, it was this fat idiot Hirohito going rogue again, oopsie. Time for peace now, thank you for your attention to this matter.

I mean that's what they are doing in the middle east all the time. They literally attack each other endlessly but aren't technically at war most of the time.

OP is saying that there is a difference between actions that can be interpreted as an act of war and a formal declaration of war. It seems pedantic but I have to agree the difference is there. Iran has no interest declaring war on the US. Luckily there were enough adults making the decision that a retaliatory strike (with advance warning) was enough to call it a day.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 hours ago

In what world not bombing someone directly is not a declaration of war? So just about anyone can go around and blow shit up anywhere and even they are asked about it the answer should be a clear “yes, it was me” and an oopsie and all is forgiven? “It was all in good fun ol’ chap!”.

The guy is even delusional about how his actions ended a 30 year war, but when Iran will start blowing people up and saying “sure, it was us”, they will for sure also go “we are in a war, aren’t we?”.

It’s ok, Trump can just continue jerking himself off in Mar-a-lago and imagine himself as a great leader respected by everyone.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 hours ago

The US is an inescapable hell. I pity the people living there right now.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 hours ago

What the actual fuck is wrong with these idiots?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Well that was nice of them to make a list of who wants to be primaried

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 hours ago

God damn right. Primary every last one of those gutless fuckers and never cast another vote for any of them if they represent you.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I'm sorry I know this impeachment is important to all your emotional needs after feeling bullied and all, but it would be extremely helpful to Trump.

Bear with me please. Here's how impeachment actually works:

Trump does something terrible that is extremely unpopular.
Outrage forces Democrats to impeach him.
Because impeachment requires a 2/3 majority, which is literally unobtainable for Democrats even after the midterms, there's absolutely no chance whatsoever he gets convicted, so he wins at the Senate.
Trump declares victory, says the whole thing was a hoax.
(This is the key) Low information voters regard the issue as now settled in Trump's favor.
No one talks about the illegal war, leading the Jan 6 riot, or trying to corruptly shake down Zelensky again, because these are all now worthless as attacks against Trump.

See the last two impeachments. There's no way this works well. American democracy sucks, but realize it's a game. You can't win at poker by playing every hand, no matter how much you deserve to win. Impeachment is a 2-7 off suit. Fold it on sight.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

It most certainly is a game. It's a game where anything is on the table for making sure the bad guys lose.

I would be more willing to accept that this is a good time to fold if the Dems went for the eyes or throat on other occasions. But they do not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Fair enough, but this is the opposite of going for the eyes and throat. This is attacking Trump where he's least vulnerable. It's an uphill frontal assault on Trump Castle, armed with a nerf gun. The best you can hope for is a valiant effort.

Better option would be they should stop pretending they have power, and go out there in the media and into communities and yell about how Republicans have too much power, and need it taken away.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 hours ago

The day Americans realized no one was coming to save them 🫂

[–] [email protected] 44 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

Here's the full list of House Democrats who voted to table the impeachment articles.

Pete Aguilar (California)
Gabe Amo (Rhode Island)
Jake Auchincloss (Massachusetts)
Wesley Bell (Missouri)
Ami Bera (California)
Don Beyer (Virginia)
Sanford Bishop (Georgia)
Julia Brownley (California)
Nikki Budzinski (Illinois)
Janelle Bynum (Oregon)
Salud Carbajal (California)
Andre Carson (Indiana)
Ed Case (Hawaii)
Sean Casten (Illinois)
Kathy Castor (Florida)
Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick (Florida)
Katherine Clark (Massachusetts)
Emanuel Cleaver (Missouri)
Jim Clyburn (South Carolina)
Herb Conaway (New Jersey)
Lou Correa (California)
Jim Costa (California)
Joe Courtney (Connecticut)
Angie Craig (Minnesota)
Jason Crow (Colorado)
Henry Cuellar (Texas)
Sharice Davids (Kansas)
Don Davis (North Carolina)
Madeleine Dean (Pennsylvania)
Rosa DeLauro (Connecticut)
Suzan DelBene (Washington)
Chris Deluzio (Pennsylvania)
Debbie Dingell (Michigan)
Sarah Elfreth (Maryland)
Cleo Fields (Louisiana)
Shomari Figures (Alabama)
Lizzie Fletcher (Texas)
Bill Foster (Illinois)
Lois Frankel (Florida)
Laura Gillen (New York)
Jared Golden (Maine)
Dan Goldman (New York)
Vicente Gonzalez (Texas)
Maggie Goodlander (New Hampshire)
Josh Gottheimer (New Jersey)
Adam Gray (California)
Josh Harder (California)
Jim Himes (Connecticut)
Steven Horsford (Nevada)
Chrissy Houlahan (Pennsylvania)
Steny Hoyer (Maryland)
Val Hoyle (Oregon)
Hakeem Jeffries (New York)
Julie Johnson (Texas)
Marcy Kaptur (Ohio)
Bill Keating (Massachusetts)
Timothy Kennedy (New York)
Ro Khanna (California)
Greg Landsman (Ohio)
Rick Larsen (Washington)
John Larson (Connecticut)
George Latimer (New York)
Susie Lee (Nevada)
Mike Levin (California)
Sam Liccardo (California)
Ted Lieu (California)
Zoe Lofgren (California)
Stephen Lynch (Massachusetts)
Seth Magaziner (Rhode Island)
John Mannion (New York)
Lucy McBath (Georgia)
Sarah McBride (Delaware)
April McClain Delaney (Maryland)
Jennifer McClellan (Virginia)
Betty McCollum (Minnesota)
Kristen McDonald Rivet (Michigan)
Morgan McGarvey (Kentucky)
Gregory Meeks (New York)
Grace Meng (New York)
Kweisi Mfume (Maryland)
Joe Morelle (New York)
Kelly Morrison (Minnesota)
Jared Moskowitz (Florida)
Seth Moulton (Massachusetts)
Frank Mrvan (Indiana)
Richard Neal (Massachusetts)
Joe Neguse (Colorado)
Johnny Olszewski (Maryland)
Frank Pallone (New Jersey)
Jimmy Panetta (California)
Chris Pappas (New Hampshire)
Nancy Pelosi (California)
Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (Washington)
Scott Peters (California)
Brittany Pettersen (Colorado)
Nellie Pou (New Jersey)
Mike Quigley (Illinois)
Jamie Raskin (Maryland)
Josh Riley (New York)
Deborah Ross (North Carolina)
Pat Ryan (New York)
Andrea Salinas (Oregon)
Mary Gay Scanlon (Pennsylvania)
Brad Schneider (Illinois)
Hillary Scholten (Michigan)
Kim Schrier (Washington)
Bobby Scott (Virginia)
Terri Sewell (Alabama)
Adam Smith (Washington)
Eric Sorensen (Illinois)
Darren Soto (Florida)
Greg Stanton (Arizona)
Haley Stevens (Michigan)
Marilyn Strickland (Washington)
Suhas Subramanyam (Virginia)
Tom Suozzi (New York)
Emilia Sykes (Ohio)
Paul Tonko (New York)
Ritchie Torres (New York)
Lori Trahan (Massachusetts)
Derek Tran (California)
Lauren Underwood (Illinois)
Juan Vargas (California)
Gabe Vasquez (New Mexico)
Marc Veasey (Texas)
Eugene Vindman (Virginia)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
George Whitesides (California)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 hours ago

My representative, who is generally a pretty progressive guy, is on this list. A local journalist asked about his vote, and the statement from his office was that the congressman is waiting for a classified briefing on the Iran strikes to help determine whether the president broke the law.

I know that we live in a world where we expect not only a 24-hour news cycle, but 24-hour resolutions to all issues. Having a solid argument and proper evidence for impeachment is the sort of thing that moves more slowly than we would like.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago

Really appreciate it. I've been telling myself I need to start adding to the emails of my reps, and used this list as the reason to start.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago

Ah, Jim Clyburn, the jackass who helped Biden win the primary and put us on the path to the second Trump term.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 hours ago

Ro Khanna, Hakeem Jeffries and of course Nancy Pelosi.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 9 hours ago (5 children)

Nobody who said "blue no matter who" in 2024 is allowed to say "what the actual fuck" at this.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 hours ago

The alternative being…? What, third party candidates? Are you kidding? The only alternative to “blue no matter who” is more “red” and as you can see, there is literally zero support from “red” whereas there’s at least a substantial fraction from “blue.”

I don’t think many people who said “blue no matter who” are actually very surprised by this, because the phrase is not coming from die hard supporters, it’s coming from anyone with basic logic skills.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Disagree, that's basically saying if you vote in your best interest you can't complain.

What the actual fuck

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago

I was a "blue no matter who", why not?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 hours ago

Especially if they tried to blame objectors

[–] MyNamesTotallyRobert 10 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (3 children)

Frankly, I agree. I just want health insurance, weed to be legal and I want for employers to be stripped of some of the freedoms they are abusing to destroy the economy and this country as a whole. I don't give a fuck who they bomb in the middle east in exchange for it. I just want to be able to live my life. Too bad not enough people voted blue no matter who.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

This is why America is going to get a totalitarian purge. It's also why it probably deserves one, we're just going to end up doing it reverse to bite it chuckling and moving on with their day like this asshole.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 hours ago

"If I keep chasing the carrot on a stick, I'm sure they'll let me get it eventually."

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 hours ago

…who they bomb in the Middle East in exchange…

Or who they deport, or the misogyny, or the racism, or the abandonment of health and science and climate.

Quite an American response.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 hours ago

He's already been impeached twice in his previous presidency, he shouldn't even be sitting where he's at

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 hours ago

I knew both sides were bad, but I didn't realize the rot was infested this badly.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 hours ago

He's still useful to Israel. Bibi has some Raytheon catalog pages he circled items on.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Welp There it is, on record, Both sides are the same.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 minutes ago

Reaching obvious conclusions based on observations in reality is tankie shit, please refrain from doing so.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 hours ago

Jesus McFucking Christ.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Still "both sides are not the same"? Even if Democrats have slight majority in both or either houses, they still dilute policies to appease the fascists from stonewalling. Meanwhile, the fascists legislate every unspeakable evil policies and Democrats don't even try to resist as opposition.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

Really disappointed in my Congress woman, Sarah Elfreth. I wrote her an email and she responded with basically “that’s what they told me to do!”

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 hours ago

Reply with "So what is the point of you?"

[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 hours ago

Gotta share a screenshot of that email if it actually gives any detail, basically confirming the system rigging and complacency from members of said system, send it to some independent journalist or something.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 11 hours ago

Oh yeah, and all of these 128 Democrats will be very disappointed about something evil that the chertondoes later and "wish they would have voted differently"

Fuck all of them

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 hours ago

Liberals are against every war except the current one.

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