this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2025
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Israel’s war in Gaza is chipping away at so much of what we – in the United States but also internationally – had agreed upon as acceptable, from the rules governing our freedom of speech to the very laws of armed conflict. It seems no exaggeration to say that the foundation of the international order of the last 77 years is threatened by this change in the obligations governing our legal and political responsibilities to each other.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 43 minutes ago (1 children)

When are we going to talk about African wars?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 39 minutes ago (1 children)

When the US starts being the primary funder of them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 20 minutes ago

There isn’t sky difference between American arms and israeli arms

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 hours ago (3 children)

I'm pretty sure it's just Trump breaking the world order and eroding the freedom of Americans.

When the Israel-Hamas war is over do you really think everything is going to go back to normal in the US and the rest of the world?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 34 minutes ago (1 children)

Read the article. The most egregious violations occurred during the Biden administration. Biden is better at Trump as a whole, but on the Gaza issue, both have support for Israel locked in at 100%. People often fall for the marketing - Biden virtue signals while Trump vice signals. Biden made a few token show gestures towards Palestinian rights, and Trump gleefully celebrates his cruelty. But in terms of actual tangible support for Israel? Trump's record is a direct continuation of Biden's. The Biden admin for example were the first ones to propose the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. That isn't something Trump came up with - he just vice signaled with his stupid 'Gaza riviera' plan, while Biden's plan for ethnic cleansing was discussed quietly.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 26 minutes ago

Could you source the statement about biden's quiet discussion?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 hour ago

Myopic US take. The Israel lobby is all through the western world and has pushed almost every government into the corner of accepting this racist genocidal war lest they be labelled anti-Semitic.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 53 minutes ago

The complicity of many national governments in this genocide, including my own (Canada), will be remembered with disdain.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

the Mayans missed it by like ... 15 years

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago

Idk. Seems like this was occurring in 2012 too.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-188596/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Is it? I don't even hear anything out of the Arab states. It should but I don't see much.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

This war is of course a huge tragedy, but as someone who sees gaza war as a local conflict borderline affecting few cities, I can't help but chuckle how much lemmy ignores the largest country in the world waging war in Europe and only escalating by every month, while western countries can't seem to keep up in production. It's Russia who will break the world, not some conflict in middle east.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Lol, calling Russia the largest country in the world is a strange way to increase the might of a faded superpower who can't deploy an army to win against a country much smaller than them.

It is absolutely a big deal and most of Europe offers financial, military and humanitarian assistance above what you'll see on Lemmy. The difference is the genocide in Palestine is war crime after war crime. Sure, Russia commits and has committed war crimes, but even they follow most of the rules of war. Israel is genocidal. It's supported by their people. It's abhorrent.

I think Israel is foolish. They are protected by their international support and not viable on their own. Trump is unpredictable and nationalistic. They could get left out in the cold, like USA did to Ukraine very easily. Netanyahu has is ear. As does Putin and the Saudis. In trumps case, it'll be what he can get. Israel have less to offer while requiring the funding the others don't.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I think Israel is foolish. They are protected by their international support and not viable on their own. Trump is unpredictable and nationalistic.

That's weird logic. If we're going with Trump being unpredictable, then it really doesn't matter what Israel does in terms of maintaining support from Trump.

And countries don't base foreign policy based on what teenagers on the internet want. They base it on interests. What has Israel done that goes against anyone's national interests? Iran is a thorn in everyone's side, and Hezbollah has been weakened and cut off from easy supply from Iran because Assad's regime is gone. It's not in anyone's interest for Iran to have nuclear weapons, and Israel has proven their capability in taking out Iran's air defenses. The Houthis are a problem for global trade and Trump isn't going to hit them as long as they keep to their deal and not hit US shipping.

So given everyone's interests most countries might wag their finger at Israel publicly for political reasons, but people in power know that if their people were taken hostage by terrorists, they'd do much the same thing as Israel has done. The US has become unreliable in dealing with the middle east (not really caring about Houthis attacking other country's shipping) so they need an ally in the region to keep Iran and their proxies in check. And Israel has demonstrated a lot of capability in that regard. So do you think countries are going to isolate Israel for the sake of a small group of protesters constantly shouting insane slogans?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago

I mean that Israel depends on usa support. That could disappear on a whim.

War crimes and normalised genocide is a risk to all countries sovereignty.

You're looking at the current layout of the middle east. It's a constantly changing unstable environment. Iran going nuclear is in nobodies interest but Iran.

Not punishing Russia for invasion of Ukraine showed the world that if you don't want to be subject to larger countries rule, you need nukes. Ukraine is the only country to voluntarily give them up. Look how that turned out. Israel has not signed the non proliferation treaty. All other signatory countries have an obligation to stop them too. Where was that will?

Israel won't be isolated due to protests. Israel receives support as a vassal state to be useful in the middle east. USA is no longer dependent on the middle east. Europe less so, but still dependent. Israel is therefore less useful. So support will end eventually, irrespective of Israel's actions. Israel might hasten that end with actions that are politically damaging for the politicians in countries that enable their genocide.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 hours ago

What? No one's ignoring Ukraine.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago

The only way Russia can win is if Trump bails them out. Which is a possibility, but that would just be Trump breaking things.

[–] [email protected] 162 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (3 children)

The Jewish people of the world deserve apology from the government of isreal for using their suffering as a political tool in service of genocide.

In conflating politics and imperialism with lineage and race, the political movement of Zionism sows incalculable hatred into the world in the name of Judaism, so that they can reap it later, when Jewish people suffer as meat shields, as justification for expansionism, and forever-war. Down with this theocratic shell game.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago

The Palestinian people deserve a lot of apologies from a lot of assholes on the internet that have monetized their suffering.

And a lot of people in the Arab world deserve an apology from the Ayatollah of Iran for using them as meat shields in their failed attempt to wipe Israel off the map.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

My pro-palestinian praxis is making sure my Jewish neighbours have no reason to even think about aliyah. Jewish safety? It's here. Reverse doikayt.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

As someone who is a Jewish refugee in the US, there are more than enough Jewish folks in Israel and around the US who are completely fine with what the government of Israel is doing. They should not be let off the hook. I say this fully realizing that the pro Palestinian sentiment has a large Jewish constituency in the US. So it’s not to paint with a broad brush. But people living in Israel are almost 3/4 in support of what is happening and the only protests in that country were from people who wanted to rescue the hostages but were fully on board with the horrors the country is committing in the name of Jews around the world. The conflation of a religion with an ethnicity will end up making us less safe.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 hours ago

That's not because they're Jewish, though, it's because they've let their ego and pride overcome their empathy for their fellow human beings.

There's plenty of non-Jewish people who are also perfectly happy to profit off the suffering of Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Those were absolutely not the only protests in Israel, those were the only protests in Israel that got coverage and support from the government. The protests against what was happening were violently suppressed and silenced as has been happening for quite some time. Yes the large anti netanyahu protests made little mention of Palestinians rather than ceasefire deals to bring the hostages home but that is how you bring people together politically.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Zionism is a destructive toxic ideology of fascistic bloodlust and racial supremacy. It is the true descendent of Nazi ideology.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

Given that the Zionist movement was founded decades before the Nazi movement, I would say Nazis are the descendants.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

More accurately, they’re both separate descendants of ethnonationalism which was a popular ideology at that time. And still today, evidently, though it seemed to be in decline for a bit during the post-war period.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 hours ago (4 children)

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine. Joining those two groups is ridiculous and rude to Jewish people.

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish.

That said, after it became a British Mandate (1917), Israel got a ton of international support. And obviously after WWII, they got whatever they wanted…. Which, was choosing violence.

A lot of the reason the Arabs got little support was because they were fragmented, with no leadership. Each of their revolts were seen as a threat and not a legitimate push back against colonization. And, after the Ottoman Empire fell, England and France “stole” that land, so revolts were more or less terrorism (in their eyes, of course).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 hours ago

Zionists collaborated with Nazis to help them deport Jews to Palestine.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 hours ago (10 children)

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution.

This is completely ignoring the boycott and parallel society angle. What Zionists did in pre-mandate Palestine was also forced expulsion of Palestinians; the forcing part was simply delegated to the state. Had they simply wanted to settle in Palestine nobody would've minded, but that was fundamentally not what the Zionist project was.

According to Israeli historian Benny Morris, Zionism was inherently expansionist and always had the goal of turning the entirety of Palestine into a Jewish state. In addition, Morris describes the Zionists as intent on politically and physically dispossessing the Arabs.

The World Zionist Organization established the Jewish National Fund (JNF) in 1901, with the stated goal "to redeem the land of Palestine as the inalienable possession of the Jewish people." The notion of land "redemption" entailed that the land could not be sold and could not be leased to a non-Jew nor should the land be worked by Arabs.[145] The land purchased was primarily from absentee landlords, and upon purchase of the land, the tenant farmers who traditionally had rights of usufruct were often expelled.

-Wikipedia

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine.

Nazism had a lot to do with the German people expanding their homeland to Eastern Europe and Russia and murdering the inhabitants. Starting to see the similarities now? Nazism and Zionism are sister ideologies, both fruits from the same rotten tree that is European settler colonialism.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

Nazis had nothing to do with the Jewish people establishing a homeland in Palestine

They actually had a huge amount to do with the creation of Isreal, actively encouraging and facilitating the movement of German Jews there.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

Zionists are similar tool of oppressiom to nazis

The Jewish people began by buying the land legally in the late 1800s as a way to escape persecution. That pissed off the local Arabs (understandably) and both of them started arguing—which was not usually violent until 1920-30ish

Arab was pissed of when the zionists plan became clear. Owning lands do not give you right to declare a state

There was a group of Yemeni jews who settled in palestine and people was fine with them. Arabs and those jews was going to each other festivities.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (3 children)

The split is between governments and the general public. I don't know too many individuals who are ok with what is going on. And if they are, they are being awfully quiet about it.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

You should go and read some daily mail comments on articles about the war (genocide). They're a bunch of frothing murderous horrors.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Internet comments != real people

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago

As someone who has to deal with real people at demonstrations regularly, these horrible genocidal sentiments are not just limited to internet trolls unfortunately.

Also as much as they are detached from the general population, all the politicians and Israel lobbyists and MIC lobbyists still are real people too.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 hours ago

Those articles always get a bunch of trolls though.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 9 hours ago

The people who are okay with it are the ones who hate the Muslims. Which is a shockingly large number of people and governments.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 hours ago

But those people still elect those parties thst support israel. Why those parties would listen to people?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

In repression of counter speech against genocide in almost all western countries to some degree their hand has been shown once again to be prioritizing order over law's rotting corpse.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 hours ago

Not order. It's control and oppression, a tale as old as mankind.

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