This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Are there whataboutism arguments? Yes, many.
Has Chinese intelligence lost access to a treasure trove of US data? Yes.
Are US kids’ already dwindling attention spans going to be saved from exposure to the TikTok algorithm? Yes.
I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
Actually, you're right.
If we consider this normal, it would totally be acceptable for Europe to demand a ban or sale of American ~~spying and propaganda tools~~ social media and streaming platforms. Either way, it would reduce the harm they could do - and in the case of a sale, they'd actually have to adhere to consumer friendly laws.
They probably should. FB and all those other apps suck just as much.
Fucken do it.
I wish we would, but on the other hand, not being a totalitarian regime is kind of the reason why it's better here. Damned if you you, damned if you don't.
Are US kids’ already dwindling attention spans going to be saved from exposure to the TikTok algorithm? Yes.
You're pinning the blame on tiktok when this also applies to YouTube (shorts and not), Instagram (Reels), Twitter. If we wanted an actual solution here we would implement actual children screen time laws, ironically similar to the under 18 gaming laws that have been implemented in China.
Tiktok is the only platform I've seen legitimate progressive movement on various issues and discussions centering on what that means and takes, in a way that actually fosters a great democratic progressive movement in the US.
From all I've read on this issue, not a single person has provided me with any insight into what or who this benefits that does not also apply to every other social media other than an entirely fabricated myth that they're controlling the algorithms to spread anti US sentiment. Anti-US sentiment definitely exists, but it exists as a discussion around what the US is currently doing. I.e. funding Israel, and as a counterargument to that I am also fed state department interviews on my FYP.
80% of contant on tik tok is pro Palestine compared to 20% pro Isreal. They cannot have the young generation be made aware of the world's injustices. Thats why it was the fastest bill to pass.
saved from exposure to the TikTok algorithm?
I don't understand. It will just be bought. It won't go anywhere.
Let's declare any successful foreign country as enemy and either ban, or better, steal their products. True market.
China would certainly know a lot about stealing intellectual property from successful countries.
Right?! As well as banning social media. China has banned basically every American social media long before this.
I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
I agree with the chinese intelligence part but other than that, this is basically the government telling you how to live your life rather than letting you choose yourself. In my opinion we should be allowed to make bad choices. What's next? Ban on sugar and mandatory excercise for everyone? Obviously I'm being hyperbolic but this is a step in exactly that direction.
You're the type of person to hate on China for the way they control the internet then root for the same thing to happen here.
Apples to Oranges. This isn't about preventing TikTok users from seeing content the US deems harmful, it's the delivery mechanism for that content is such a gaping hole of security it doesn't even qualify as a backdoor espionage. It's going straight through the front door to gather data illicitly for reasons unknown. Adversarial nations are marked such for good reason and not a title lightly given.
TikTok isn't the only social media that should be banned here but I'm honestly struggling to understand why people are fighting so hard to defend it, it's a massive data leaking engine that harvests so much more information that it needs for people to share funny fortnite dances and cat videos. That and siix months from now if the ban goes through some other app is going to pop up to fill the void while existing apps and social media platforms have already been trying to cater to the short video sharing for a long time now.
I don’t really use TikTok but I really hope this gets tossed by the courts. I don’t care if ByteDance is owned by cthulus and draculas, it’s a terrible precedent to have the government ban a media company. If we don’t like China having access to data, ban apps from collecting it in the first place. Require algorithm audits. There are so many better ways to handle this than singling out TikTok.
Everybody talks about Facebook like they’re owned by the American government. They’re not. I’m sure the US government gets massive amounts of data from them, but they can’t control Facebook in the way China can control Tik Tok. And much of their surveillance is public with warrants whereas China does not need to follow any of that.
If you think the Chinese government doesn’t have its hand directly up in Tik Tok, you’re absolutely fooling yourself. China has much more direct control over companies, well beyond what the US government has.
I know that I heard (on the 538 podcast) that before voting on this, congress was given a security briefing about it, and after that there was wide bipartisan support for the ban (and we all know how rare bipartisan support is these days). It sounds like the security briefing was pretty compelling. If it's not just theoretical that Chinese gocernment could leverage tiktok to spy on Americans and influence them, and there's evidence that they are already doing it, I think it makes the case for the ban much stronger. But the information has not been made public.
I'll also note that they set the ban to not go into effect until after the election.
Young people get a lot of their news and information from TikTok. The US government doesn't have their hands in TikTok like they do domestic social media platforms.
That's it. That's the ban.
Edit: A lot of people downvoting, but this is 100% about control. It isn't "oooo China spooky" national security stuff, it's "we have no power here, how can we change this?"
This seems to be the case, but congress is doing an awful job of communicating the danger to the public. There will likely be a lot of people angry at Biden when he signs this if there is no effort to justify the targeted action.
Being the guy who signed the bill that threatens the existence of a platform that is super popular with young people whose vote he desperately needs during an election year. Masterful gambit, sir!
Literally my first thought... Way to go Biden, nothing like getting hundreds of thousands of "influencers" mad at you right at an important election...
But who are we kidding, I can guarantee that maybe 5% of Congress even understood what they were doing.
Data harvesting is half of the problem. I have a feeling that congress could give two shits about the data harvesting as it’s almost literally everywhere in modern society and not in the interests of donors or the nationality security apparatus to remove.
The other half is the platform and its potential (hypothetical and actual) for use in information operations. TikTok has direct access to something like 160 million American devices. That rivals other social media giants like Meta who have some government liaisons and relationships embedded in their security teams. ByteDance to my knowledge does not have these relationships. This problem could just as easily apply to any other foreign platform if any were large enough to pose threats of this scale.
My guess is they’re more concerned about propaganda. They’re concerned about it being Fox News, but for the CCP.
Starts off innocent enough, then slowly starts pushing disinformation that’s in service of a political entity.
You mean exactly like Facebook, right, because there are a lot of parallels but I never heard American politicians want to ban Facebook.
Let's not fool ourselves!
Difference being, Facebook is just greedy, and will promote toxic disinformation because it gets high engagement numbers. If factual civics videos got high engagement, Facebook would gladly promote that. They want to promote whatever is going to sell more ads.
With the CCP, the motivation is the message, not the money. With Facebook, the motivation is the money and whatever message makes the most of it.
Based take. Seemed we learned nothing from Trump and What-aboutism. Just because Facebook does it and doesn't get in trouble doesn't mean Facebook is in the right. It means you should get mad and demand change from them too.
Also I might have missed this, but didn't everyone get mad at tiktok last or a couple of years ago for circumventing Android and Apple app policies and collecting data they shouldn't? I though Facebook and Twitter obeyed those policies, they just had other means to collect that data.
I posted this in the other thread, but I'll repost here for discussion:
Ew. I looked through the bill, and here are some parts I have issues with:
Main text
PROHIBITION OF FOREIGN ADVERSARY CON - TROLLED APPLICATIONS .—It shall be unlawful for an entity to distribute, maintain, or update (or enable the distribution, maintenance, or updating of) a foreign adversary controlled application by carrying out, within the land or maritime borders of the United States, any of the following:
(A) Providing services to distribute, main- tain, or update such foreign adversary con- trolled application (including any source code of such application) by means of a marketplace (including an online mobile application store) through which users within the land or maritime borders of the United States may access, maintain, or update such application.
(B) Providing internet hosting services to enable the distribution, maintenance, or updating of such foreign adversary controlled application for users within the land or maritime borders of the United States.
So basically, the US can block any form of software (not just social media) distributed by an adversary county for pretty much reason, and it can block any company providing access to anything from an adversary.
Definition of "controlled by a foreign adversary"
(g) DEFINITIONS .—In this section:6 (1) CONTROLLED BY A FOREIGN ADVERSARY .— The term ‘‘controlled by a foreign adversary’’ means, with respect to a covered company or other entity, that such company or other entity is--
(A) a foreign person that is domiciled in, is headquartered in, has its principal place of business in, or is organized under the laws of a foreign adversary country;
(B) an entity with respect to which a for- eign person or combination of foreign persons described in subparagraph (A) directly or indi- rectly own at least a 20 percent stake; or
(C) a person subject to the direction or control of a foreign person or entity described in subparagraph (A) or (B).
The adversary countries are (defined in a separate US code):
So if you live in any of these or work for a company based in any of these, you're subject to the law.
foreign adversary company definition
(3) FOREIGN ADVERSARY CONTROLLED APPLI - CATION .—The term ‘‘foreign adversary controlled application’’ means a website, desktop application, mobile application, or augmented or immersive technology application that is operated, directly or indirectly (including through a parent company, subsidiary, or affiliate), by—
(A) any of—
(i) ByteDance, Ltd.;
(ii) TikTok;
(iii) a subsidiary of or a successor to an entity identified in clause (i) or (ii) that is controlled by a foreign adversary; or
(iv) an entity owned or controlled, di- rectly or indirectly, by an entity identified in clause (i), (ii), or (iii); or
(B) a covered company that—
(i) is controlled by a foreign adversary; and
(ii) that is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of—
It specifically calls out TikTok and ByteDance, but it also allows the President to denote any other entity in one of those countries as a significant threat.
So here are my issues:
So I think the bill is way too broad (lots of "or"s), and I'm worried it could allow the government to ban competition with US company competitors. It's not as bad as I feared, but I still think it's harmful.
Anyway, thoughts?
and I’m worried it could allow the government to ban competition with US company competitors.
I want to give the benefit of the doubt and say they are concerned about getting programs running all over the country that can somehow "backdoor" a major issue into our network, but I not only don't know enough about how feasible that is, I also strongly believe it's as you feared. It's what we get the government to do all the time: fuck with other countries to "protect" our major corporations...
Why give them the benefit of the doubt? Look at Snowdon"s revelations, they abused FISA courts to rubber stamp spying on US citizens. Why wouldn't they do the same for lobbyists?
I get that TikTok sucks for all manner of reasons, but expanding the power of the executive branch isn't the way to deal with it, especially this way. This is pretty similar to the "force authorization" crap where the President can just bomb whoever the want, provided they let Congress know afterward. But now it's in the economy instead of just military...
So no, I'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt, they've lost my trust every other time they've done something like this. The bill is bad and the precedent is sets is bad.
My $1 bid is ready to submit to ByteDance once grandpa signs that bill.
Good. Honestly, great! The EU should do the same. Fuck the CCP and their propaganda machine that brainwashes people all over the world!
Free markets 📉🔥
Free speech 📉🔥
Children’s attention spans 📈✈️
I don’t think that a hostile foreign nation has an inalienable right to collect the data of and interfere in the lives of American citizens, as a form of “free speech” lol
I guess the EU should ban Meta and Xitter....
The United States is not an enemy nation to the EU. Nor does the United States own Meta or Xitter.
That being said if EU nations were worried about the NSA collecting information on their citizens and had reason to believe Meta was complicit in that, then they absolutely should ban Meta. I mean they have the GDPR don’t they.
They basically do, as revealed by Snowden documents when the US forced American companies like AT&T, Microsoft, or Google to let them spy on their users. I don't even think Tik Tok stores their user data in China servers, it's in Texas or Virginia or Singapore.
Well yeah?
Probably, but for other reasons. Neither of those are owned by the US, are they?
You're arguing this is bad for free speech defending an app run by a country that doesn't have free speech.
