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So we're just trusting the police that they got the right guy and aren't framing some poor schmuck, now? I mean, saying 'The Adjuster' is a hero is one thing, but I'm not yet willing to concede the point that he and 'Luigi Mangione' are one and the same.
I am pretty sure that Luigi Mangione was my sales rep at the Apple Store in Orlando, Florida on the day of the shooting.
Can't be, I had him over for breakfast that morning.
That's cool. But Luigi and I saw a movie that evening. The new one.
I remember cause we went out for drinks right after the movie, Luigi was always in sight
Same except Missouri.
I mean if they did that and the real killer killed another CEO it would look very bad.
A hero? For what? He didn't do anything.
They should let that innocent man go free though.
You expect me to believe that his name is Luigi’s Mansion?
If it was, Nintendo would be trying to kill him.
Still a murderer. Regardless of how much we agree with his reasons and the rest of the outcomes.
Fuck that CEO, and fuck the entire US health insurance system, but I'm just not going to delude myself that this guy did not murder the piece of shit.
Edit: See, this is exactly what I'm so against. Too many people are willing to shit on anyone who says anything slightly negative about this guy, all while throwing logic out the window. This is disgusting and outright dangerous behavior.
People need to not lose sight that things got so bad that this guy had to take it this far. Downplaying the fact this was murder is not good.
NYS Penal Law SECTION 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person
Whether or not he is a murderer depends on whether the DA can meet their burden of proving he committed the acts necessary to satisfy the elements of NYS definition of whatever degree of murder the Grand Jury indicts (if that happens) AND he is not able to establish the affirmative defense of justification.
None of these determinations have been made yet.
I gotta ask, are you a time traveler or a boot licker?
Am I a bootlicker simply because I don't agree with a killing?
I'm not in any way saying the CEO was not a total shitbag who was the effective cause of many deaths.
I just don't like that murder was seemingly what needed to happen to give people a voice.
Unfortunately yes, peaceful protest isn't working nowadays
Never has.
Then blame the monsters who ignore human rights for sake of profit, and their enablers. Not the person who saved lives by giving the billionaires a reality check. Yes, it was an unlawful killing. But if the law protects mass murder by denial of life saving care, then how should people change something?
I do blame the monstrous predators of our fucked up healthcare system that ruin and end people's lives to make a profit.
I also don't like that someone had to be killed in response.
I don't blame the guy, but I also believe that killing is wrong.
And yet, actions taken by the UHC CEO have doubtlessly caused far, far more suffering and death. Why aren't you criticizing him?
You can criticize both a piece of shit profiting off the misery of others, and the person that murdered him in cold blood and took a father away from two children. You can also criticize them both without equating them, in fact.
Exactly. I'm glad someone gets it.
I do when people try to defend the CEO.
Just to give one more take (without contributing any hostility, I hope!) - one way to look at it might be that you see this new development (Thompson's murder and the nation's "hell yeah!") as the scary, dangerous step too far, whereas maybe many of us see the scary dangerous step(s) too far as having already happened (maybe long) in the past.
We're in a really scary situation as a country, and that was almost exactly as true the day before Thompson's murder as it is today. The significant events leading to our scary situation are a list of egregious misdeeds and manipulations by people in power, stretching back years - even if I take your premise that it's wrong, this is just yet one more event (if a notable acceleration). I sincerely believe that a few more gray hoodies might actually send things back in the right direction and bring the owner class back to the negotiating table. As it stands (and ~equally true two weeks ago), the social contract in this country is in tatters. The rich get everything, everyone else - nothing, not even the healthcare we already frickin bought.
Laws are not virtuous by default, is it a moral judgment against killing itself here, or is the problem that it was not a legal act? Of course don't let me reduce your position to one of my own two phrasings lol, but I am curious about the specific objection you have.
I really appreciate your perspective. It definitely helped me feel better about how hostile the rest of the responses have been.
I do already share that same thinking that it has been pushed too far long ago, though slowly to an extent.
I guess I have trouble wrestling with how far of a distance there is between the CEOs actions and their effects having caused deaths of many. It seems that the logic of that makes obvious sense, but there's so many steps in between that it also seems so different from direct murder. Because of that distance of actions is what I feel makes it murder.
If we don't consider this a murder and then continue that logic, at what point of involvement with the company does it stop and then become murder?
Still, I feel like this action, that I still feel is very wrong, is starting to give the people more power and the voice we should have had all along. So the results of this have seemed to benefit the people who have been victims of the predatory health insurance system.
I personally don't ever want to feel good about killing another person. Even if justified. That just seems wrong.
Well, I can understand your point of view without sharing it. As for the hostility, beyond most folks just following whatever up/downvoting they see taking place already, there's a critical element here that shouldn't be missed - the positive response has been largely bipartisan, which is rare and valuable. And not only is it bipartisan, it points out an important truth which any resident of this country would do well to keep in mind -
At this stage of the game, we might be a hair's breadth from realizing that it hasn't been Democrats vs. Republicans for a long time, it's just all of us regular folks vs the abusive rich (+their enablers).
I'm reaching here, but if other people feel that way, I can imagine wanting to discourage anything that takes away from a sudden (much needed) feeling of unity.
I'm just concerned about the lack of acknowledgement that this was a murder and the glorification of killing. Like I said before, I don't see why we can't feel good about what this has accomplished so far while also acknowledging that murder and killing is bad. It just seems like a mindless mob rather than a rally behind an ideology backed with logic.
Still a murderer.
I stopped reading there. You can fuck right off.
yeah he probably saved lives, if he ends up changing the health insurance landscape because of this
Two things can be true. He can have done that and still have accomplished it via murder.
I'm glad I'm not the only one on this boat. People are allowing their emotions to control them when they worship Luigi, worse than Trump supporters.
So you're seriously gonna tell the police to put their guns down while a dude breaks into your home and kills your family? Or are you just morally grandstanding right now
If its a yes or no question "Do you think Brian Johnson should have been killed?" My answer is No.
If you ask me "on a scale of 1 to 10 how much do you care about Brian Johnson being killed?" I'm going to ask if I can use decimal points because a 1 isnt low enough.
I can simultaniously not advocate for people murdering other people over their ideals and really not be too distraught when someone who pretty clearly has some sort of karmic retribution due gets their comeuppance.
The ceo killed more people than the shooter. So all murderers matter to you?
The superhero pilled brain of America will be the death of us.
There are no heros. There are people who are willing to take extreme measures because of their situations. He's not taking requests. He's not planning additional actions. He's not coming to save you. We have to do that ourselves. Kill your heros and join a movement that actually does something. Stop waiting for some vigilante that will never come.
But he did come… And he shot a legitimately evil person.
Who will just be replaced with another. I mean, we're all here talking about it, but ultimately, nothing will change.
Edit to add, nothing will change without pushback from the people. Original comment was very defeatist, and change can happen, but not by sitting here with our thumbs up our asses. At least we're talking about it, I guess.
It's one thing for this to happen, shrug, and not give a shit. It's another to glorify this guy.
It happened. I'm not upset about it. But this Luigi cat isn't my hero.
He isn’t some school shooter. He isn’t a crash out. He deliberately took steps to materially change the balance of power.
Dude just take the win. The perfect hero isn't coming. This isn't a Disney movie.
This is what one would expect Plain Simple Garak the Tailor to say.
Out loud.
Until something actually factually nasty about him comes up, if anything ever does, totally agree.
Pay attention, you are about to watch whats known as a "smear campaign"
Every edgy facebook post, every website that could be construed as "extremist", any possible history of mental illness. They are gonna drag him through the mud, even if they have to manufacture the mud.
Ive been saying all along that the best result we can hope for is that he was never found or identified, because before now he was able to be idolised for whatever ideals we wanted him to have. I guarantee they are going to find a way to make him a pariah.
It's started already. I've heard the word mental illness several times in the media already.
Anyone know the names of the main media CEOs?
Hes getting a shitload of slack from me as well as benefit of the doubt.