this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2025
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At the current rate of horrible fiery deaths, FuelArc projects the Cybertruck will have 14.52 fatalities per 100,000 units — far eclipsing the Pinto's 0.85. (In absolute terms, FuelArc found, 27 Pinto drivers died in fires, while five Cybertruck drivers have suffered the same fate, at least so far.)

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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 219 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

...and unlike the Pinto, because we are so deep into fucked-reality-ville, it won't get recalled.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 133 points 2 months ago (8 children)

Ford's reasoning was that it was cheaper to pay out for the injuries and deaths than to change the car. Cybertruck has a much better plot armor, a fanbase that refuses to believe it's crap.

[–] Cyclist@lemmy.world 52 points 2 months ago (5 children)

I think that fanbase is staying to wane. But who knows, maybe the gas loving Maga rednecks will start buying...who am I kidding, most of them can't afford the ridiculous price tag.

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 45 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Not only that, it's not even a proper truck. They could have come up with a standard truck design and used tech and EV to create a new niche that was usable. But no one can tell Elon no, so his 5-year-old self's vision had to be made because it's different. Sometimes different doesn't mean better.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 21 points 2 months ago

What often happens in cases like that is people on the edge leave, but those who remain are now distilled insanity.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

the maga crowd has diesel truck attached to their very masculinity, thats never happening.

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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They can just buy a used one since the value of these fucking hunks of junk drops dramatically once its driven at all.

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[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago (12 children)

Nah. The Ford Pinto laid the groundwork for the NHTSA's regulatory control of forced recalls. The only way this thing doesn't get recalled for being dangerous is if Musk's D. o. g. e manages to undercut or defund the NHTSA.

Additionally, other countries with better regulatory bodies won't even allow it to be sold or will require mandatory recall of these vehicles which means the end of the cyber truck. They can't even sell them because people don't want them.

The other thing is that insurance companies can absolutely refuse to insure them and if I'm honest, they may be the main reason that the NHTSA doesn't back down from regulating them (insurance companies are a powerful lobby, and they absolutely can countermand the automotive lobby in some cases).

My point is, it's more complicated than just "Musk is a government official now, and historically dangerous cars weren't recalled".

[–] psmgx@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

NHTSA

Project 2025 has explicit targets for reforming NHTSA. It is unambiguously in their sights, just lower on the priority list.

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (17 children)

Agreed. And that's where consumer choice comes in. People don't want them. Tesla is having to rework their entire plant to use the assembly lines that produce cybertrucks because they can't sell the ones they've already made. They projected and prepared to manufacturer and sell 500,000 and they've sold something like 40,000 and the rest are just sitting in retail lots or holding lots collecting dust. The best estimate seems to be that they might be able to sell another 30,000 in 2025. But with tax credits for EV's going away and other regulations going into effect world wide, that is probably a pipe dream.

[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Look, all I'm asking is that Tesla investors lose all their goddamn money.

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[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'd like to thank you for this measured take in response to my unbridled cynicism.

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, you made a good point. In the article it states pretty definitively that the NHTSA hasn't been allowed to have the Cybertruck independently crash tested which is bogus as hell.

The fact that it can't force that from any car manufacturer doesn't really make sense. They haven't even received relevant data related to Tesla's in house crash testing and I can't even begin to understand how that's legal.

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[–] dnzm@feddit.nl 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I believe they're absolutely not street legal in the UK, nor in the EU. Those were never "ridiculous sized trucks" Walhalla to begin with (although I see more Rams than I care to, these days), so there's roughly zero chance those things will become mainstream here.

Heck, we have rain here, that's enough of a wankpanzer repellant.

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[–] yesman@lemmy.world 210 points 2 months ago (10 children)

I love Elon Bad posts, but I think it's worthwhile to examine why Elon bad in this case.

Like many reactionaries, Elon's business philosophy is pure tech-bro-libertarianism. And like all libertarians, he's stuck in the neoliberal mindset of less regulation (don't scrutinize) and more efficiency (let me be cheap), in order to create the safe space that industrialists need to ~~extract~~, er create.

He's literally said things like (paraphrasing)

When I see a specification for three bolts I ask: why can't we do it with two?

His transparent reasoning is that if he's allowed to cut corners, he'll save money today and consequences can be dealt with when they arise.

He's following the software model of release a minimally viable product and patch it later. Only instead of user frustration at being beta testers, you fucking die maybe.

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 87 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Him and his libertarian friends fuck up left and right. Crashing startups and just getting more money for another. Constant recalls. Blowing up rockets until it works.

Yet they hold the government to a standard of being perfect and high performing with no room for failure. NASA can’t be blowing up rockets. As soon as they do the world comes down on them.

And Trump is the biggest fuckup of all these guys.

[–] TK420@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I see you don’t understand testing things before they are safe for humans to be inside of. So by this logic, you are saying “blowing up rockets until it works” is also saying “crash testing cars is stupid.”

If NASA was funded properly, we may not be leaning on one private company, whose owner is a nazi, to be paving our way forward for daily space activities. Can’t say things won’t blow up during testing, but at least it won’t be headed by that guy.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 42 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The issue isn't the way of testing, but the two standards. If Musk blows up rockets in testing it's a genius move with rapid iteration. If NASA does this it's irresponsible handling of tax payer's money on risky endeavors.

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[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Blowing up rockets until it works is a far better approach than trying to get everything to work on the first try and ending up with a hugely overpriced white elephant.

[–] Traister101@lemmy.today 22 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Sure, if it was cheaper than just doing it correctly the first time which it's not

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[–] x00z@lemmy.world 59 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You can't use "literally" and "paraphrasing" like that.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 48 points 2 months ago

I think it's also worth noting that Elon Musk is a scammer. Every other word out of his mouth is likely a lie. He's been claiming to already have technologies available for his Tesla cars, his SpaceX rockets, etc, all ready to go and.. it never happened. Tesla full self driving? The Tesla taxis? SpaceX on Mars? The Tesla laughably stupid robots? Even those were faked.

Claims after claims for decades and literally no results

The guy is a full on bait and switch yet everyone seems to lap up everything this scammer says.

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[–] FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 92 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm guessing that some people at the National Transportation Safety Board are about to get fired by Elon Musk.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Safety belts are a waste of precious money!

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[–] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 82 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Cybertruck will have 14.52 fatalities per 100,000 units — far eclipsing the Pinto’s 0.85.

Holy shit, that means the Cybertruck fatality rate is around 17 times higher than the Pinto's!

[–] Greee1911@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago (2 children)

If you read the article is was specifically died by fire. Not any other cause of death.

[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 45 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Right but the specific issue with the Pinto was that it would explode into flames on a rear impact, so this is the appropriate metric.

Like deaths from other accidents would skew the numbers anyway because 70s cars were death traps compared to today, but even in that context, the Pinto's explosions were alarming.

Beating it on that isolated metric is a very special kind of achievement.

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 76 points 2 months ago (5 children)

The Pinto got well known for a couple of reasons.

One, the classic "exploding in a rear end collision." The design flaw here was that in certain rear collisions, the fuel tank would be pushed into the rear differential. Not only could this rupture the fuel tank, it could also produce a spark. Boom. Lots of cars had this same design in the 70s, with the fuel tank low in the rear, right behind the rear differential.

Two, the infamous Pinto Memo, which did a cost benefit analysis that determined it would be cheaper for Ford to not fix the problem, and just settle whatever cases came up. This very clearly inspired the Fight Club recall formula scene. Take note that the car used in that scene is a Lincoln Town Car, produced by Ford Motor Company.

The kicker for the Pinto recall? What they did to fix it:

  • Two sheets of 1/8" plastic, each about 18" square
  • Some long zip ties
  • Layer the two sheets over the rear diff, zip tie them to the axle

That's it. My dad pointed this out to me in his shop some time in the late 80s or early 90s. He had a Pinto in for an oil change or something, "Hey, let me show you this." It was such a hacky "repair."

[–] otto@sh.itjust.works 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Curious: how effective was that “repair”? Did it actually make a difference at all?

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 30 points 2 months ago (3 children)

It would have prevented the "spark" part of the failure condition, but not the tank rupturing part.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Stopping the explosions seems like a good enough sort of solution to me

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 22 points 2 months ago

A more appropriate solution would be a plastic shield designed to fit around the whole front of the gas tank, and then appropriately fixed to the vehicle, as opposed to "some hardware store shit."

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[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 52 points 2 months ago (4 children)

And some people wonder why the cybertruck is barely sold outside the US.

Everything I hear about this thing is bad.

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 42 points 2 months ago (3 children)

It's barely sold in the US as well.

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[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 29 points 2 months ago

keep in mind that while the cybertruck might seem like a bad vehicle, it also is a bad vehicle

[–] bus_factor@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago (3 children)

It's barely sold outside the US because other places (like the EU) also care about the safety of people outside the vehicle. That's why European and Asian cars (except the models explicitly for the US market like the Tacoma) are designed for pedestrians to be deflected, while US cars are a moving brick wall which will squish them like a bug.

Also, I suspect you'd need commercial plates and a special license to drive it most other places, due to the weight.

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[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 35 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Really took the wind out of my satirical comment that Musk wanted to bring back the Pinto.

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[–] SphereofWreckening@lemmy.world 30 points 2 months ago

The thing is a very obvious death trap to anyone that knows simple physics. There are videos testing what happens when a Cybertruck hits a hard wall at certain speeds. That thing didn't crumple at all until speeds greater than 35 mph. And even then it only barely crumples at all. The damage it could produce hitting another vehicle would be catastrophic and fatal.

[–] TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I was driving out of a parking lot yesterday just as a Cybertruck started to pull in off the street from the left. The driver was white-knuckling the wheel and was frantically looking around as I assume he could barely see out of the goddamn thing as he swung so wide he nearly clipped my car. He needed almost the entire driveway to make his turn.

I cannot imagine dropping so much money on something so useless and so hideous.

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[–] DaddleDew@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What a dumpster fire that truck is.

[–] mombutt_long_and_low@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I was thinking “What’s that red stu—oh…” Yikes.

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[–] socialmedia@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

It seems obvious in hindsight. Sheet metal doors will crumple in a way that can't be opened, trapping occupants. The fire doesn't need to start in the relatively safe and armored battery system. It could be pinched wiring causing a short that ignites plastic interiors, or a fire from another vehicle spreading to the cybertruck.

I'm sure someone mentioned all this to them during design.

[–] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

Garbage in, garbage out

[–] bus_factor@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

Was the Pinto really that bad, though, or did Mother Jones do them dirty?

In the numbers above, the Pinto is hardly a standout deathtrap; I mean, by modern standards, sure, everything on that list is a horrible deathtrap, but the Pinto was safer than the Toyota Corolla or the Beetle or the Datsun 210, and none of those cars are as burdened with the oppressive fiery deathtrap narrative as the Pinto is. In fact, the Pinto’s overall deaths per million vehicles is better than the average!

https://www.theautopian.com/its-long-past-time-to-stop-making-fun-of-the-ford-pinto/

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